Thanks Weightshift - cos Phil Mickelson is a left hander and thus hitting the other way - its still downwards....
Millrat - Whilst I can agree that perspective can play tricks on particular things (ie side view and inclined plane) - I can't see how any illusion that could be present to decieve the viewer. Because we can be pretty positive that the camera view is taken at a parallel plane to the horizontal ground at approximately ball height. Whilst the camera may or may not be rotated away and thus not nessesarily be absolutely dead square on to the inclined plane, it will do nothing to decieve on the clubhead going downplane. You can see clearly that the clubhead is getting closer to the ground - no camera deceptions are going on.
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I guess we're left to make assumptions in this case about the camera position and angle. I'm not so much disputing it as trying to understand it.
Matthew - please dont take this the wrong way - and I admire and salute your effort in posting the pics, but in my humble opinion (yeah yeah, I know, opinions are like...)
The pics to me, are inconclusive. Retief looks like his might be up, Scott's looks like a 3 wood (versus driver), Vijay's looks like its on the upswing, and Phil's (in the background) looks like the camera is not level at all (assuming it would be level with the ground - again, see behind Phil's driver). Again, I applaud your effort, but feel they may be inconclusive.
My understanding is Homer certainly knew that Pro's can and do (no percentage's) hit the ball with their driver on the upswing - thus maximising roll.
Great conversation and I look forward to seeing more comments - if I get the chance I will try to post some pics as well.
I think a lot of confusion is that most relate everything to the ground.
If the swing is always moving "down" until the shaft is in line with the lead arm, the one can still be swinging "down" yet with the proper axis tilt, can be swinging level or even "up" in relation to the ground.
I would even venture to say with an iron swing, low point is not at the bottom of the divot, but at the point where the shaft lines up with the lead arm (low point could even be after the club has left the divot and is above ground.
I think a lot of confusion is that most relate everything to the ground.
If the swing is always moving "down" until the shaft is in line with the lead arm, the one can still be swinging "down" yet with the proper axis tilt, can be swinging level or even "up" in relation to the ground.
I would even venture to say with an iron swing, low point is not at the bottom of the divot, but at the point where the shaft lines up with the lead arm (low point could even be after the club has left the divot and is above ground.
Bruce
I most certainly agree. Perhaps it is more useful to think of 'low point' as the point farthest away from 'center', rather than it having any relationship to the ground.
There is a difference in perspective between the low point of 'force' (both arms straight) and the low point of the clubhead (at left shoulder, relative to ground, right arm stil bent).
This, IMO is the core reason for 1-L-15.
__________________
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"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
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I most certainly agree. Perhaps it is more useful to think of 'low point' as the point farthest away from 'center', rather than it having any relationship to the ground.
There is a difference in perspective between the low point of 'force' (both arms straight) and the low point of the clubhead (at left shoulder, relative to ground, right arm stil bent).
This, IMO is the core reason for 1-L-15.
Are we seriously considering that the in-line condition (arm and clubshaft), no matter where achieved, is low point?
We intend to strike a ball that lies on the ground, or on a tee that lies on the ground. Low point must IMO be in relation to the ground. Although I must admit I've more to but I understood Low Point to be the lowest point (elevation) in the clubhead's orbit.
Are we seriously considering that the in-line condition (arm and clubshaft), no matter where achieved, is low point?
We intend to strike a ball that lies on the ground, or on a tee that lies on the ground. Low point must IMO be in relation to the ground. Although I must admit I've more to but I understood Low Point to be the lowest point (elevation) in the clubhead's orbit.
CW
There are two perspectives, one of force, and one of the clubhead.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
"The THRUST continues downplane during the Follow Through." (I-L...item #15)
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Retief's moving up doesn't surprise me with that bending left wrist and pull draw of his.
I have some good video on my home cpu. (not at work)
Both ways are options I'd say.....a Bent left wrist is never really recommended tho.....I know we could get into all this about Retief and etc. etc. but he's an exception and plays a pull draw.
Mathew, I was puzzled by the VJ's picture you posted as to why he was hitting the ball so high on the clubface. Here's Tiger's swing in slow motion which includes a closeup of impact and where the speaker says that he hits the ball high on the clubface for a high launch angle and low spin. http://www.golfdiscussions.com/yabbs...p?topic=8246.0
You'll notice (in the clip that follows the swing) that although the clubhead is moving approximately horizontal to the ground prior to impact, the loft of clubface, with the ball high on the clubface, is actually hitting the ball up!
Mathew, I was puzzled by the VJ's picture you posted as to why he was hitting the ball so high on the clubface. Here's Tiger's swing in slow motion which includes a closeup of impact and where the speaker says that he hits the ball high on the clubface for a high launch angle and low spin. http://www.golfdiscussions.com/yabbs...p?topic=8246.0
You'll notice (in the clip that follows the swing) that although the clubhead is moving approximately horizontal to the ground prior to impact, the loft of clubface, with the ball high on the clubface, is actually hitting the ball up!
I forgot to ask.. Does this mean that his sweetspot is high on the clubface?
but I understood Low Point to be the lowest point (elevation) in the clubhead's orbit. 
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