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-   -   levers and 6-A-2 (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7883)

dlam 01-02-2011 08:41 PM

Great post Daryl,

The Trebuchet is exactly what I consider the forces of the golf swing is. Dual lever.
Form I and Form III

Why do you consider the golf swing dual lever form III?

BerntR 01-02-2011 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 80777)
All I am saying is why can't the fulcrum be the hands and the force be the shoulders or the pivot?

You can probably get close with a combination of reverse pivot and a flip release.

With form III you get help fro CF to keep the lever straight. That is a precondition for transmission of energy from the force to the moving mass. With form I the hinge will prevent proper transmission of force to the other side of the fulcrum.

dlam 01-02-2011 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerntR (Post 80818)
You can probably get close with a combination of reverse pivot and a flip release.

With form III you get help fro CF to keep the lever straight. That is a precondition for transmission of energy from the force to the moving mass. With form I the hinge will prevent proper transmission of force to the other side of the fulcrum.

That is very true Bernt,
A special shot like a flop shot might be good for class I.
There is no control over the speed of the clubhead with class I
A single class III lever type shot has more speed control more effective for the short game.

BerntR 01-02-2011 11:37 PM

For what it's worth I think the lever approach is insufficient in describing how Accumulator #4 works and how the Left Shoulder (and the right shoulder too) really powers the golf stroke. The lever III form doesn't account for pivot power.

If you assume that the Left Shoulder is the swing center I guess that a Lever III analysis should do, but the Left Shoulder is rotating around the center axis of the stroke. The left shoulder doesn't just deliver centripetal force that keeps the club in orbit. It is torqued around the swing axis and delivers Linear Force to the clubhead via the Left Hand.

Daryl 01-03-2011 12:07 AM

Underline by Daryl. When examining the "Lever", consider where the "Force" is applied and not what generates it.

Quote:

Power Package Muscle Power can be almost entirely Right Triceps. The Right Triceps and Pectoral can handle the muscle requirements of the Downstroke and need no help from those on the left, whose feeble contribution relegates Left Arm Muscle Power to a minor status, especially for Hitting. But Left Arm Power for Swinging is a transfer of Body Momentum and is very considerable. As outlined in 2-K and 6-B-3-0 this does not mean an “On Plane” Left Arm. See 2-P and 7-13.

2-M-4 BODY POWER Inertia can hold the Left Arm against the chest while the Body Turn is accelerating it and Momentum can then sustain it and come out with the Feel of Left Arm Power. See 2-K. To clear the fog, consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting the Swinger’s essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact. Or, as supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitters loaded Power Package so the Clubhead can be endowed with Pivot Speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed. Study 6-B-4, 6-C-0, and 7-12 in this connection.

dlam 01-03-2011 12:31 AM

Daryl,

When you were a boy in school and the teacher ask a question no one could answer, did all the other boys and girls point to you and say "I betcha Daryl knows the answer"?

dlam 01-03-2011 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerntR (Post 80840)
For what it's worth I think the lever approach is insufficient in describing how Accumulator #4 works and how the Left Shoulder (and the right shoulder too) really powers the golf stroke. The lever III form doesn't account for pivot power.

If you assume that the Left Shoulder is the swing center I guess that a Lever III analysis should do, but the Left Shoulder is rotating around the center axis of the stroke. The left shoulder doesn't just deliver centripetal force that keeps the club in orbit. It is torqued around the swing axis and delivers Linear Force to the clubhead via the Left Hand.

Bernt, I agree lever III single lever doesn't account the power, this is why I believe a dual lever system is best to describe what powers the golf swing including the pivot.

The left shoulder is the center of the swing arc for some shots but I concur that the right shoulder blade can be the center of the swing arc as well.

Daryl 01-03-2011 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 80852)
Daryl,

When you were a boy in school and the teacher ask a question no one could answer, did all the other boys and girls point to you and say "I betcha Daryl knows the answer"?

Ok, believe what you want.

dlam 01-03-2011 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 80853)
Bernt, I agree lever III single lever doesn't account the power, this is why I believe a dual lever system is best to describe what powers the golf swing including the pivot.

The left shoulder is the center of the swing arc for some shots but I concur that the right shoulder blade can be the center of the swing arc as well.

The swing center is more complicated and involves the pivot and would be another thread

BerntR 01-03-2011 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 80846)
Underline by Daryl. When examining the "Lever", consider where the "Force" is applied and not what generates it.

Fine by me.

For a swinger, a significant part of the linear force is applied as an axial pull force through the left arm and through the shaft. With extencior action the work load will be channeled from the right side of the pivot as well. The same basically goes for a hitter. If he can play golf.

I sustain my earlier claims that pressure point #4 has a limited influence power wise. It's the pulling (and the pushing) through the shoulders that delivers the real horsepower whether you hit or swing.


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