No . . . YOU'RE the MAN!!!! It's in them purdee pictures of your swing. Pictures worth a thousand words PUDGE.

Here's proof positive that you can teach TGM without every using it's language...Billy Herring - 14 Years old...12 minute lesson Monday thru Friday before he leaves for school! He's a Champion..He has a Vision...He told Mike Holder of Oklahoma State this summer at the OSU Golf Camp.."Coach I'm comin to OSU"...Coach Holder probably thought "Okay?"...then several days later..this boy was medalist shooting ...I believe a couple under...Guess he can back it up!!!;)

Billy Herring

2nd picture, bottom row, IMPACT-------awesome.

Approaching Golf Stoke Perfection
 

And check out Frame #7 (third on bottom row)...

In Zone #1 (Body Control), look at those Feet and their rock solid Balance. Almost as if they were bolted to the floor and yet with sufficient freedom ('between the soles' Loading) to accomodate the Standard Knee Action and its support of the Downstroke Hip and Shoulder Turns. Also note the Centered Head Position making possible a Centered Arc. All this while achieving the Body Power (2-M-4) of the Standard Pivot.

In Zone #2 (Club Control), look at those Arms. Full Extension Down Plane into the Follow-through.

Finally, in Zone #3 (Ball Control), check out Billy's Flat and Vertical Left Wrist and its beautifully executed Horizontal Hinge Action.

There's a little Bobbing (3-F-7-C) going on during the Downstroke as the Head seeks its Impact Fix Location, but nothing that many great players from Nelson to Trevino to Woods couldn't live with.

Bottom line:

It just doesn't get much better than this!

:)

1-L-21 is referring to Machine relationships. We humans are not machines and have extra components that make the Golf Stroke more complicated. This is why you cannot demonstrate Axis Tilt or slide Hip Slide on the geometrical figure of 1-L.

Wearing jeans with shirt hanging out?! Sort it out annikan.

You're right Leo and I agree...but in the US...the shirt hanging out and the jeans are "The School Boy's Uniform" here in the US....How many 14 year olds listen to all of which you have to say?....Someday he'll apprecitae Zanella Slacks and Bobby Jones Silk's!!! But for now..just a country boy!!!:cool:

Thanks a heck of a lot for the explanation! A great read.

I still have a little confusion. I can't understand how this hinge explanation works for any way but one. How would you do a Horizontal Hinge vs Angled Hinge vs Vertical Hinge. I don't yet understand how to change the amounts of "Turn" for Horizontal vs Angled vs Vertical Hinge.

*And I thought I understood Horizontal/Angled/Vertical Hinge action two years ago.

It's what you hold your left wrist perpendicular to. So Horizontal Hinge is on the HORZONTAL PLANE. Like the shooting people with your index finger. Your arm is like a DOOR swinging on its hinge. It moves on a horizontal plane right?BUT to get from the HORIZONTAL PLANE to the "golf plane" which is the Inclined Plane (like a roof) you gotta drop your arm down on it. Hence Dual Horizontal Hinging Hinge #1 is the like the door's hinge, but to get to the Inclined Plane you need a second hinge to drop it down from your shoulder socket. Make sense?

Now Verticle Hinge is like an attic door or a trap door. It moves on a VERTICAL PLANE right? So you move your arm up and down like you were trying to fly. But you need a second hinge to get you on the inclined plane . . . so Dual Vertical Hinging. Cool?

Now for Angled Hinging you don't need no 2nd hinge because you are already on the Inclined Plane. Therefore your wrist just remains verticle to the Inclined Plane (roof).

That's the conceptual stuff but you can control your Hinge Action by FEEL and by how the Clubhead points:

FEEL
7-10 HINGE ACTION . . . Beside the coverage in 2-D, 2-G and 10-10, “Basic Hinging” has the following characteristics of appearance and feel. Between the “Full Roll” of Horizontal Hinging and the “No Roll” of Vertical Hinging, Angled Hinging takes on a “Half Roll” motion. While Horizontal Hinging retains the “Feel” of a “Roll”, Angled Hinging takes on a “No Roll” Feel and Vertical Hinging is executed as a “Reverse Roll

VISUALLY
Stop at the end of a short Chip Shot – the Club at about 45 degrees. With Horizontal Hinging, the toe of the Club will point along the Plane Line. With Angled Hinging, about 45 degrees across the Plane Line. With Vertical Hinging, about 90 degrees across the Plane Line with the Clubface looking Squarely at the sky. And always with a Flat Left Wrist vertical to its associated Basic Plane. “Over Roll” or “Under Roll” of the Left Wrist – NOT VERTICAL – puts the Swingle out of line with the Handle (Sketch 2-K) as much as does any other form of Clubhead Throwaway. Practice these alignments until you have the same Rhythm hitting the Ball as with your Practice Swing. Their difference is always Rhythm.

The KEY to this Rhythm is the #3 Accumulator (6-B-3-0). As part of the above drill, hold the 45 degree Arm position while rotating the Hands and the #3 Accumulator through the three Hinging positions, over and over until you see that each position changes the LOCATION of the Clubhead. The Point to note here is that with each Hinge Action the #3 Accumulator has a different “In Line” motion – Dual Horizontal Hinging having the longest travel and Dual Vertical the shortest. This agrees with the “Roll Characteristics” discussed in 7-10 and must be so executed to produce proper Rhythm.

Word?

Almost Word.
At the moment I'm trying to imagine how a horizontal hinge that is dropped down (Dual Horizontal Hinge) is different from an Angle Hinge.

1. Stop at the end of a short Chip Shot – the Club at about 45 degrees.

a. With Horizontal Hinging, the toe of the Club will point along the Plane Line.

b. With Angled Hinging, about 45 degrees across the Plane Line.

c. With Vertical Hinging, about 90 degrees across the Plane Line with the Clubface looking Squarely at the sky.

With open hand hold your hand VERTICAL (at 90 degrees to) the Inclined Plane with your left arm at follow-thru position. It is still "cutting through the Plane right?

Now raise your open palm up infront of where it would be at follow-thru with the hand Vertical to the ground. Now drop it down to where your arm would be at follow-thru on the inclined plane. It is MORE ROLLED no?

Thanks Tongzilla. I think it was my interpretation of 1-L that has led me astray.

1-L THE MACHINE CONCEPT It is soon apparent that the body can duplicate a machine. Grasp the parallel and escape limiting old concepts.

The key difference, and the 'root' of the issue is her grip.

Note how well David has maintained his right wrist bend in the comparison above, vs. the flat right wrist position of Melanie.

Melanie's right hand grip is too much in her fingers, rather than being at the 'root', or base, of the fingers/palm. This forces her to take a stronger left hand grip in order to 'balance' the tendency of a right hand fingers grip to open the clubface, and doesn't allow her to keep her right hand wedge until follow through.

Both David's grip and Billy Herring's grip are far better, as you can clearly see in the impact and follow through positions in their sequences.

This is an area where TGM and 'traditional' teaching are rather different, and it is a VERY important difference.

Your pattern always comes back to your grip. I can certainly relate, as I had for many years used a right hand grip that was too far in the fingers - which just destroys the right forearm wedge.

Hitting chip shots right hand only can show you the proper location, at the 'root' of the fingers.

Heck of a motion from Billy Herring David! ;)

oh to be a young kid with a great coach. good luck to the young grasshopper, from just another coulda-been-champion :rolleyes:

Bucket the Bird Man
 

"Like you were trying to fly."

:D

How many times will I say those words over the next ten years?

Thanks, Colonel!

Rocky Balboa: I feel like a Kentucky Fried idiot.
 

You like? I prefer the yardbird image. Like Rocky chasin' that chicken around a vacant lot. People north of the Mason Dixon don't know nothin' 'bout no yardbird. Chickens are for chasin', fryin', bbq'n, and chok. . . (ah hewm!!!).

Thanks again 12Piece

Helluva post EdZ...thanks for the insight!!!

Down Target View Available?
 

David,
Is Bill's Down Target View available?
Would you have time to post it?
Thanks,
Mike O.

I'll try to capture some next lesson!!! Our building is so short that we have to film down the line fro outside the building to inside and this messes up the lighting during some portions of the day...

Post your's as well if you can Annikan!

Matt

Noproblemos, thanks for putting the two pics together. Really shows the difference between hinge & swivel.

Annikan, curious what your miss patterns are now vs. before when you were swivelling at impact.

Roger

And thanks to everyone in this thread.
Annikan for the great pics, Edz with that analysis and explanation, Tongzilla for the Hinge vs Swivel explanation. Yoda too.
.........

Just wondering: I read Hank Johnson's book three or four years ago, so I don't remember for sure, but is his explanation of the Hinges different from the one in this thread? Is this why somebody said that Hank's Hinge pictures were incorrect?

........
Anyway,
I think I now have a much better understanding of how to swivel to get back on plane after my follow-through.

CHEERS TO EVERYBODY!!!

Fat or Thin...rarely offline !!!

Pudge . . . Your position and Lee Buck's are remarkably similar. Particularly the hands. But one thing I find interesting in this comparison is the #4 pressure point. This we know to be your Swing as you have told us from the jump. But people debate what Lee was. He may punch us for asking. But Ole Lee obviously is "less connected" at #4. One piece of evidence that he could be a 4-barrel hitter.

He spoke of this very thing in his book . . .

LET THE LEFT ARM LEAVE YOUR SIDE
To keep your clubhead moving down your flight path a little longer past impact, you must let your left arm leave your left side as you swing through the ball. When this happens correctly you'll feel your right shoulder working under instead of around. The extent that the clubhead can stay on the flight path past impact is exaggerated in the large drawing, but even a fraction of an inch more extension of the on-path movement will improve your chances for starting shots in the direction you intend.

Mr. K according to Yoda was particularly impressed with Buckle's ability to hit DOWN all the way DOWN DOWN DOWN. I have the Shell's dvd of Buck vs. Fat Jack. These dudes were past their prime, but I'm convinced that Lee has the best pivot and Right Forearm Flying Wedge the game has ever seen. I don't know if the above quote is a "feel vs. real" thing, but I think Lee took every shot to a perfect FULL LEVER EXTENSION. He may not have had the speed. But when he hit the ball it got BASHED with STRUCTURE . . . HARD.

Check this out!!!!..see how good your eye is......Compare to other sequence

less tilt mid axis forward
 

the hips have moved forward more and turned more degrees on the backswing, thereby resuling in a greater degree of freedom for the shoulder turn. the 2nd tilt(spine angle is more vertical at the top of the backswing and the shoulder turn is more centered(comparison of 1st pictures). the left shoulder is more forward as a result in the comparison of the 2nd pictures and the 2nd axis tilt is thereby less as it was a function of the backswing.this is also noticable in the tilt of the shoulders in the first picture on the bottom. the reduction of the 2nd axis tilt combined with the overall cog more forward will slow the rate of closure of the clubface at impact. as both lower and upper centers are more forward the hips press upward reducing the the flex in the right knee impact and next to last pics on bottom). this sequence is far superior to the lower and some sophisticated instruction wet into changing those pictures

Can't Be...
 

Annikan,
This is the same girl? You did this? What is the time period between the two sets of shots?

Same girl..I think one lesson apart

It seems as though she is torquing the heck out of her back at the finish, particularly in the after. Just an observation, not a response to the question posed per se.

Matt

Ya the lower body seems to have changed.....more hip turn....seems more grounded at Imapact too....although it's tough to tell.

As a result, she seems to have a Tripod going now...

I don't see anything else.

Does she hit it better?

I would say that the picture of Lee shows nothing more than the left arm blast off after impact. It should be doing that.

Lee is further into the finish that Annikan is in the swing sequences.

plumdog- interesting read, real food for thought ... your description of the "hips pressing upward" reminded me of a debate on the old tgm site about "releasing the tailbone" ... MORAD adherents advocated it, while the opinion of the TGM purists was that you can't release something that hasn't had a load placed on it and that the only way to "release" the tailbone was to literally stand up ... can you offer any insight on this difference of opinion? thanks.

Annikan,

I am curious if you hit the ball further with the swing or hit? Also, given your background in biomechanics, I am curious if you know the amount of compression (especially twisting torque) the lower back is subjected to with a hit and with a swing. I'm not looking for specific numbers, just wondering if one may be quite a bit better for the back than the other.

Thanks,

Matt

Not a Biomechanics expert..but swinger's who maximize a transfer of angular momentum create more torque using sequential joint motion...for me Swinging by 30 of the Tee and 10-12 per iron!!!! Probably because I never drove the club heavy enough!!!!!

Wow, 30 yards on the driver! Thank you very much Annikan!

Matt

Expert analysis by the "Plumdog"...interested to hear what plumbdog thinks of this old dog's move from the late 90's to now...Since he helped build it!!!

]Here's my Swing




as compared to my Hit

Translation please
 

Annikan,

Can you please translate the above 'expert explanation' into English?

Whoever wrote this wrote it with zero regard for their reader. A serious and fairly technical explanation it may be, but it was written 'as if' the writer had not passed 2nd class, or had a complete disregard for those trying to grasp his concepts!

Apology for the rant!

The above expert description is dead on.....It sounds more like MORADOLOGY than Homerology...Cryptic translation to come after the kids take a nap!!!