Would it stand to reason that it is the Checkrein that actually cocks the Left Wrist too?

The Right Arm attempts to remain straight at all times . . . But the Checkrein "checks" that effort and thus the Right Elbow BENDS . . . and the bending of the Right Elbow COCKS the Left Wrist???

Huh? What?

Yes, Bucket :)

Still confused
 

Guys,

So does this mean we conciously try to bend the right arm or not?

I read Bucket's post and initially i thought i understood but then the fog descended...

My thought process was: You apply extensor action during the whole swing which at first to me didn't seem compatable with the right forearm pickup - How can you attempt to straighten and bend the right arm at the same time. But then this 'Checkrein' of the left arm was mentioned, ahh this must overpower the attempt to straighten the right arm and thus it bends. But for this to happen wouldn't the left arm have to be moving upward? but wait the right arms responsible for lifting the left thus a conscous effort to bend the right arm must be involved....

As you can see, i've tied myself up in knots thinking about it.

Can anybody help clear the fog?

Cheers,

Danny

Go back and read Yoda's post . . . the one about raising your hand. Remember the left arm is a piece of rope . . . or better yet a leash . . . so you got your dawg (in this case the right arm) trying run . . . but he can only run so dang far. The leash don't move . . . it is moved by the dawg . . . but the dawg chokes himself on the rope . . . HELLO!!! CHECKREIN ACTION!!! or in this case Chokerein.

Now keep in mind the following . . .

1. The Right Arm ALWAYS attempts to be STRAIGHT
2. The Left Arm is a piece of ROPE . . . moved by the Right Arm trying its damnedest to go STRAIGHT UP PLANE and BE STRAIGHT.
3. But a rope can only be streched so far so the Right Elbow MUST BEND
4. But guess what Cocks the Left Wrist??? The Right Elbow bending.

Therefore the Checkrein COCKS the left wrist essentially.

This process works in REVERSE on the downswing . . .

Also I submit this to y'all foolz . . .

How about the concept of a BACKSTROKE AIMING POINT???? HUH????

You raise your right hand in class to ask a question . . . but your right hand is tied to your right arm so it's gotta bend . . .

Well you can get in your golf posture without a club and RAISE your right hand BACK, UP and IN basically UP PLANE until your right arm is straight . . . that is your backstroke Aiming Point.

NEXT do it with your grip . . . Your right arm still tries to go to the point where you had it UP PLANE WITH NO LEFT HAND . . . but it can't because of CHECKREIN. You will feel Extensor Action BIG TIME if you do this exercise.

Hook it up!

Ahha!
 

Great! Cheers for the explanation 12 piece bucket i finally get it!:salut:

Bucket,

This post is gold - almost as good as your Mrs Woods post on the Jen plane thread! You say to raise your right hand BACK, UP and IN basically UP PLANE until your right arm is straight - but as extensor action is in effect from startup, why not start with the arm straight? Practice right arm only with a straight right arm (with or without club), then add left hand and repeat (as you say).

On a related point, does the checkrein action of the left arm leash also cause the right wrist (as well as the right elbow) to bend?

Chris

Magnificent post Bucket! I was composing something as I felt guilty of highjacking the thread, but have gladly ditched it in favour of yours.

Chris, the first time the right arm is straight is at "both arms straight" (after impact) and incidentally it remains straight into the Finish, with the left elbow bending (a sort of reversal of roles of the arms) for maximum extension into the Finish.

Weightshift, I agree. However it is the left arm checkrein which prevent straightening before "both arms straight". So what I'm wondering, is if you take the left arm off the grip, then is there value in rehaearsing the stroke with a straight right arm - rehaearsing it with a bent/bending right arm is not representative of what your right arm should be doing in the real stroke (striving to remain straight) - although it may give the geometrical 'look' of what is happening.

Chris

It is also because the left arm moves away from the left side of the body as you approach "both arms straight" which extends the right arm hence dissolving the checkrein.

Chris, personally I do not see any merit in this exercise, but others may disagree. A good exercise in my opinion would be to practise the backstroke and consequent downstroke to "both arms straight" using an impact bag. Hope this helps.

I suffer from getting too flat in my backswing, with arms too across my body. I think when rehearsing right arm action, a bent elbow can fool you in terms of this, maybe because the right forearm feels relatively upright. If you take your backstroke with a straight right arm though, you can really feel if you are too flat at the top. Then with both hands on the grip you can look to duplicate the feeling (as Bucket explained, with a 'top aiming point'. That's the value of this for me.

Chris

The cool thing about this "top aiming point" thingie is that you can reach back with your right hand on any Plane Angle you like . . . If you are too flat reach a little higher . . . if you are too steep reach a little farther back. Then do it with hands together . . . then do it with a club.

Remember Mr. Kelley advised that at Address you ideally (particularly in Hitting) have your Right Forearm On Plane and in-line with the clubshaft . . . . To do that you gotta have your right arm BENT.

I think that the acceleration solely dependent on the drive of the Right Tricepts in Hitting requires a significant amount of structure. Whereas, Swinging you could probably get away without Extensor Action at address . . . maybe more a gentle stretch.

But maybe the Top aiming point thing based on where your right arm wants to go takes care of the extensor action without any conscious attempt to apply it.

Chris, watch the first of the Tomasello videos where he discusses the pivot, and in particular posture. Also remember that at any time, one end of the clubshaft is pointing to the plane line (which continues to infinity in each direction) or that the clubshaft is parallel to the plane line. You've seen Mike Weir take the club halfway back? You should do the same too. It works! Use a dowel to check that the armpit is over the knees which in turn are over the balls of the feet. It goes without saying that without the correct posture you'll find it very difficult to swing correctly.

Correction: If one end of the clubshaft is pointing at the plane line, it doesn't guarantee that the clubshaft is on plane. For example the clubshaft could be under-plane or over-plane and be pointing at the plane line, and obviously not "on plane". (This after reading an article on GolfBetterProductions.com)

Isn't it , by TGM definition, still "on plane" if one end of the clubshaft is pointing at the plane line?

I agree that that plane may not be the most effective for your purpose and that a different plane angle may be more advisable - but it is still technically "on plane".

If you read 1-L-11-6 in isolation you might think so: "The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other."

However.. 2-F PLANE OF MOTION All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumference of the stroke - in every direction. The full length of the Clubshaft remains unwavering on the face of this Inclined Plane - Waggle to Follow-through. Every other Component of the Stroke must be adjusted to comply with that requirement. (Bold by Weighshift)

..and it is the player's responsibility to make it so. There are an infinite number of possible planes but only one Inclined Plane for each stroke.

But what about plane shifts - they are common and well-defined within TGM orthodoxy. The plane angle varies but they always keep the same staright plane line.

Isn't the constancy of the same straight plane line the key thing ?

I am keen to understand this properly so please if anyone else can help - I would be most grateful. The point about an "inflexible" inclined plane is OK for zero shift patterns but needs to be further defined for those that shift planes - surely?

I think you're right about the straight plane line being the key thing, as it is one of the 3 imperatives. There's nothing wrong with the concept of the flat inflexible plane, in regards to plane shift. Let's say you have a shift from the elbow plane to the turned shoulder plane on the backswing. You haven't bent the flat inflexible inclined plane; there are, in fact, two: the flat inflexible elbow plane, and the flat inflexible turned shoulder plane. You simply moved from one to another. This is my understanding of the concept.

That is the way I see it too.

It is the Inclined Plane during impact that we are most concerned about.

Bigwill,

I basically agree, and its a minor point, but I prefer to think of one flat inflexible inclined plane, that is basically hinged on the ground (exactly where it is hinged is a little more complex, but I won't go into that!). A plane shift involves moving the whole plane around this hinge. Then when you're shifting planes your not 'between planes', but in the process of 'moving the plane'. Kind of like a door - it can be at a basically limitless number of positions in relation to its hinges (all different 'planes') but it can move from one position to another while continuing to point at it's hinges.
Chris

That sounds like the right answer - thanks.

I guess it has to be hinged around the plane line as it runs through the point of contact of the ball?

Is that right - remember we are not scared of complexity if it brings out the truth!

Thanks for your help

I think it probably is the point of contact with the ball - but others may think differently, this is just my intuitive thought (which is why I was a bit concerned about getting into this). If this is right, then it's interesting to think that as the plane shifts, so too does the low point line because of this.

I'd be interested in the thoughts of some of the experts on this (although I admit its just a technical/theoretical question which probably has little impact on how you actually hit the ball!)

Chris