Best Ballstriker
 

Who is the best BALLSTRIKER YOU have ever SEEN, (excluding YOURSELF)? This question was recently asked to a well known tour player. He thought... then gave two names. V.J. and Freddy. I think in his case, the question was actually the best he had played with, but we will go with SEEN.

After we get a list, maybe we can try to figure out WHY these guys, or gals strike it so well.

Great question!!!!!!

The best I have ever witnessed as far as an entire round was my old teacher Wayne Defrancesco while caddying for him in an Open qualifier. 7200 yards or so, he hit 16 greens - other 2 were on the fringe...including the stick on a par 3 from 240. Amazing.

As far as on tour - I agree. Freddie seems to hit every shot so pure...and Vijay is as good as it gets. Els was pretty damn impressive too. The straightest I have seen is Furyk.

Hmmm...who else. I never saw Trevino but everyone raves about him and of course Clampett as well.

But would the ultimate be Hogan?

I've seen personally on the Tee of a Tour event, worked with, and/or played with: that means within 5 Clublengths and Not behind the ropes!!!

1. Mac O'Grady
2. Grant Waite
3. Tiger Woods
4. Keith Clearwater
5. Neal Lancaster
6. Charles Howell
7. Steve Elkington
8. Elliot Gealy - Hooters Tour...
9. Mike Bennett - Mac O'Grady Disciple...Teaches Elk and Shark!
10.Bobby Clampett


Clue: 8 of 10 have either TGM and or MORAD connections!!!

Annikan, which two from that group don't have TGM connections?

Tiger anyway.

At an event in person

Annika
Christian Ceavar (sp?) around '88 at John Susko Memorial Tourney
Watson at Olympic in 87 2nd round
Calc at Olympic in 87 practice round
Norman at Augusta 96, before he lost it
Tiger at Pebble
Jamie Hullet at Kingsmill 2005 (needs to learn how to putt!)
Ted Fort at OCN 2005
Lynn Blake at OCN 2005
Trevino
Nicklaus
I'd like to see David Alford in person, on tape he looks like he should be on anyones list of great strikers

Also, many folks that aren't famous, but are great strikers. A guy named 'petey' from Harding Park/SF area. Someone I suspect could have been JC Andersen (about 4 years ago, but I didn't note his name at the time).

Tiger...I think?
Charles Howell - Leadbetter....BUT his coach at OSU - Mike Holder is a huge TGM guy....knows his stuff wonder why he was one of if not the best golf coaches in NCAA history....I don't know if Holder had any influence on Howell when He was there at OSU...My List was strictly guys I've seen up close and personal..Of course of seen others on the Tee and inside the ropes but they were my top ten...

Surprisingly my Top Five Disappointments

1. Migel Angel Jimenez...I was working with Neal Lancaster the last year of the Michelob in Williamsburg....I was standing in front of Neal and I heard this clankin, chunkin,thinin, toein, all over the place ...saw a HUGE ponytail and a stache....Turned backed to Neal wondering who in the he77 is that ...His reply.."Ryder Cupper!!!"

2. Nick Faldo....I'm inside the ropes at the 1999 US Open with Keith Clearwater...Pinehurst N0.2 hole #5 and Faldo is right there...I could've spit on him...but I like him to much...anyway He strikes it and it sounded like his impact was like a feather-filled pillow....well later on in the day I watched him on the range when Keith wasnt paying attention and he's hitting "no where" for a guy of such size... very little compresion...very sweepy!!! So I was let down ...I expected more out of the former #1 in the world

3. Curtis Strange...Met him at Williamsburg...Very nice guy...swing looked nice...NO POP...I'm wondering how did this guy win 2 US Opens...then he started hitting "pancake flop shots" with a Vokey 260.04 with the .04 ground completely off to what looked like a -.04...and these balls are landing like he's tossing flapjacks on the practice green off of hardpan...Now I know why...he's not afraid to miss!!!Anywhere

4. Pat McGowan - He's a personal friend and former student of 4 years......Rookie of the Year on the PGA Tour fresh out of BYU...I still cannot figure out how he lasted on tour as many years as he did...but get him on and around the green he is the "Master of the Vertical Hinge"!!!

5. David Branshaw....A high school friend ...college teammate...former mini-tour comrade...current Nationwide Tour Championship...a returning to the PGA TOUR for a second time...worked with David during his first year tried to get his "mess more on plane and to quiet down an over active pivot"..."He decided that it was way to much to change now since he was playing week to week....Now that I look back I understand...but from my friends out on the Tour they told me he was lookin for something ...anything to get him through week to week...His action in high school was pure....College very solid ...on tour...action not very good ...BUT 15 years on the mini-tours taught him ...that the intangibles combined with great putting, good iron play, and a steady driver is more important than a pretty swing...Good Luck David...Me and My family always pull for you..keep it up!!!


So my Top Ten best...and my Top Five Disappointments

Have been to tour events, but one of the purest ball strikers I have seen was Tom Tomasello. Of course, nothing was on the line as he struck balls into the net.

At the Open at St George's I worked as a spotter for ABC . I walked round with Freddy Couples , Tiger Woods, Garcia, VJ and saw all the big name players on the practice range. The best ball striker I saw there was Mathew Goggin. There was something about his ball flight that was more impressive than any of the players I saw. His short game amd putting was very poor. The only other players that impressed me as great ball strikers there were Chad Campbell and Couples. Tiger did not impress me as a ball striker . He hit it well when he hit it well but his bad shots were wild.

Solid
 

I have seen many good ones in person.
On the range, around 1994 or '95... I stood right beside DAVID DUVAL while he pured balls... and talked to me at the same time.
I watched NICK PRICE practice at Greenleaf... when I was there for a few days in around 1987. He was(is) very impressive!

MILLER BARBER was a suprisingly good ball striker. I saw him go through his whole bag on the range(1976)... and appeared to pure every ball. The action was(is) unusual, but the ball flight, and sound was very good.

ORVILLE MOODY could really strike the ball...had trouble with putting.

Of the more recent guys... DAVIS LOVE is very impressive at times.

PROBABLY THE PUREST LOOKING DRIVE I EVER SAW WAS STRUCK BY LEE TREVINO.

THE BEST ROUND I EVER SAW WAS A 64 BY GARY PLAYER.

[quote=annikan skywalker]Tiger...I think?
Charles Howell - Leadbetter....BUT his coach at OSU - Mike Holder is a huge TGM guy....knows his stuff wonder why he was one of if not the best golf coaches in NCAA history....I don't know if Holder had any influence on Howell when He was there at OSU...




Hmmm... I was counting CHIII in the TGM influenced camp in spite of Leadbetter, in part because of OK ST, and because I heard that he had studied under Kelnhoffer as well...

i havent seen many guys up close except for just a few holes at a time but ernie els at the pga at riviera on thursday and friday was very good. chip beck short but a very good ballstriker acctually not that short considering his small stature. and of course mac he has such a great blend of power and accuracy i recently stood on the range with him and a pga player you see commercials on a regular basis and there was no comparison any trajectory any shape any time. he put on a display with his 1 iron hogan blade that the pro was even acting goofy, it was great

Whistling Straits....I was watching Vijay and Padraig hitting 3 woods side by side on the range to greens out in the distance.

Vijay was hitting fades.....Padraig was hitting draws....

For both of them I remember the same thing- each successive shot seemed to trace the same path in the air. Pretty cool.

Although never seen in person, all debate starts and ends with Hogan in my opinion.
I have talked to many of my older friends and they all say the same thing, it was the most beautiful, most controlled aggression they have ever seen. They all speak of the sound being different than all others.( If the sound thing sounds familiar, people in the know said the same of Bobby Clampett).
Was also very impressed with Keith Clearwater at Augusta in early 90's.


Todd

The best?

Lee Trevino by FAR.

Hit had a lot of MASH and hit the MIDDLE of the sweetspot every time and hit it DEAD where he was looking.

Johnny Miller hit the PRETTY-ist ball I ever saw. And at least 3 shots a round stone dead (lick in range).

Byron Nelson in his 60's hit it DEAD STRAIGHT every damn time, no curve. Just one yard pulls and 1 yard pushes. You got the felling he would NEVER miss a fairway.

Tom Bartlett—in his mid-20's—was the most impressive driver of the ball ever.
30 yards longer than anyone who hit it as straight.

David Toms hits the sweetspot more times than anyone...EVER. And always hole-high.

As far as moving the ball around at will...?

There was this fat guy at Caton that even impressed the unimpressable Ben Doyle...:cool:

The best ballstriking I have witnessed in person

Tiger Woods - US Open 2000 at Pebble Beach
Ernie Els - US Open 2000, and 1998 US Open at Olympic Club
Bobby Clampett - Carmel Valley Ranch
Johnny Miller - Silverado Golf Club in Napa, CA
Steve Elkington - PGA at Riviera Country Club
Mac O'Grady - San Jose, CA

Snead
 

1964, tweleve yrs old...Sam Snead and Gary Player played an 18 hole exhibition at my home course...my dad was the clubpro but I'd never seen or heard a ball hit like Snead...trajectory was perfect, a little draw with the old balata and wood...Snead shot 65 and made no putts, Player a smooth 66...these guys had never seen this little west texas track before...amazing...the next yr we had Palmer and Nicklaus...wasn't the same although Nicklaus hit long irons higher than I could even imagine.... which didn't help in that dust storm we were having ...Palmer 76, Nicklaus 74...

Seen many of the greats through the years but Snead was something else...so solid/smoooth

So Far We Have
 

The list so far...

Vijay Singh
Fred Couples
Tom Weiskopf
Lee Trevino
Wayne DeFrancesco
Ben Hogan
Mac O'Grady
Tiger Woods
Keith Clearwater
Neal Lancaster
Charles Howell III
Steve Elkington
Elliot Gealy
Mike Bennett
Bobby Clampett
Annika Sorenstam
Christian Cleaver
Tom Watson
Mark Calcaveccia
Greg Norman
Ernie Els
Jamie Hallet
Ted Fort
Lynn Blake
Jack Nicklaus
Tom Tomasello
Matthew Goggin
Nick Price
Miller Barber
Orville Moody
Davis Love
Padraig Harrington
Johnny Miller
Byron Nelson
David Toms
Tom Bartlett
Sam Snead
Gary Player
Chip Beck

Several of these were mentioned more than once. Lee Trevino, I believe has been mentioned the most so far.

what is a best ball striker?
 

And the "Best Ball Striker" does what better?

Would a 'best ball striker' in say Hogan or Jack's day (that is two eras, no?) be different in today's era?

Lynn's impact hurts my ears. Got to worth something on the list.

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You probably have somewhat of a point about the different eras, but... players that consistently strike the ball solidly, have good trajectory control, direction control, and distance control... kind of stand out in any era.

I bet Vardon and Jones, for example, had that Good Ball Striker status also.

Woods??
 

Annikan-I know this is a little off from the post but from what I hear you say Woods is moving towards more of a swinging motion would that put the Harmon motion more towards a hitting motion and the Haney/Jacobs method more of a swinging?

What do you think of what Woods is doing with Haney?

Would love to hear your opinion of Hank Kuehne who used to be a Haney guy and has run back and forth and now seems to be hitting it sideways??

now seems to be hitting it sideways i have always liked hank but he has always been pretty wild

What is the Same?
 

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OK... add Jay Haas, Bruce Lietzke, George Knudson, Mickey Wright, and Moe Norman.

What are the SAMENESSES in these players?

i actually looked at all the stats once from players from the last twenty years and lietzke kept popping up. his ballstriking stats was always very high. and the cool thing was he never practiced what a lucky fellow

They all have 24 Components!

Same
 

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24 COMPONENTS... and most, if not all, have BALANCE, are on PLANE, at least through around release point(9-2-9)to separation, and have CLUBHEAD LAG to some extent.

Anything else?

Nice job compiling the list Lagster!!!

I'd like to hear from some of the...uh hum...older folks. Those that have seen both Trevino and Hogan. I only have tape and have not had the privelege to see either live. Anyone?

I sure wish I had seen them in person! (which was why I didn't include them in my list)

Jamie Hullet (not Hallet) - LPGA player - VJ if you ever get the chance, your mastery of putting is very much needed in her case!

As to what they have in common...

Balance, Plane - and a good Grip for the motion they make.

Trevino/Hogan
 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've seen Trevino several times. All on the Senior Tour.
I saw him hit a drive that was as straight as an arrow, fairly low, and fairly long. He goes through that little routine... then that ball tears out of there. I know a former tour player that used to play practice rounds with Trevino. He said he was by far the best ball striker.

I know a tour player from the 50's and 60's that played with Hogan. He said the SOUND he produced from striking the ball was quite unique. Snead did not like to play with him, because his tempo(Hogan's) bothered Sam.

Really? That's funny....ya they are kinda polar opposites tho.

I don't get how Hogan's swing can even work with his fast tempo.

I mean....he's a Swinger right? I dunno....I tend to fall towards the slow side I guess....doesn't work when I Swing fast like that.

Anyone ever play with Bobby Walzel? He was and is still very pure. He once shot 59 and didn't make anything longer than 18 feet. But the most impressive is Bobby Schaeffer, who Ben Doyle considers to be the MODEL for the Golfing Machine. He is a small guy, but can hit it ridiculously long and do any trajectory any time. It's a pity that he didn't develop the wedge play he has now until years after he left the Nike Tour.

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I saw Bobby W. play on the tour in around 1976. He did strike it well, as I recall.

Maybe we could get some footage of Bobby Schaeffer's action?

I second that! And we want to see his 'A-power' swing :p (shaft almost snaps!)

Gang, if you didn't get to see Moe Norman strike balls, you missed something special. I got to spend many hours with George Knudson. He was amazing, but he was a notch below Moe. Growing up in Southern Ontario being around those two was a treat. There is a reason there are hundreds of "Moe" stories. He's my #1.

I did get to follow Mike Weir on the final round at Pebble in '05. He was 7 behind the other lefty, Phil. Mike shot 67, making nothing and was the low round by 3 shots. The wind blew, the rain came down and oh, btw, they were playing at Peb from the tips. He missed one green because of a mud ball. Otherwise, it's got to be one of the finer rounds.

Duval has got to be recognized before the meltdown. The 59 at the Palmer during the Hope is as good as it gets. The course isn't as easy as TV viewers are lead to believe. I'm an old friend of Jim Furyk and Duval was his number 1 back in the day. Funny, Furyk is right up there now too!