24 years of golf but only 24 hours of G.O.L.F. !!
 

WARNING - this is an extremely long essay on my early interpretation of TGM especially :- plane/ right forearm position at impact and address / clubshaft forward lean!! Sorry in advance if it is boring but all i need is for 1 or 2 people to read and say yes or no regarding certain questions. Apology in advance if i have got it completely wrong!!

It is my embryonic attempt to question my understanding of TGM . It shows all the logical steps in my thoughts and hence is long. I try to use english rather than TGM-ese because ,rather like my German , i can pronounce TGM-ese but not understand it fully yet!!:)


I come to this forum after much exposure to the standard “my way” golfing texts, from Nicklaus to Nick Faldo, via Hogan , Player and Leadbetter etc. I was slightly surprised to learn that I had never heard anything about TGM, even though it has been around for 36 years and had successfully been through at least 6 editions ! My mistake… but i feel that there is a groundswell of TGM info going around that may reach a certain "critical mass" and suddenly the world will know!!

I have introduced myself to the TGM theories via website forum on this site and others (Manzella, Evans etc) which rapidly convinced to get the book and dig deeper.

It is only natural for me to compare and contrast my current knowledge with that which I find in TGM. I am clearly not looking for 100% recycling of my current knowledge because the information that I already possess has yet to bear fruit in a reliable swing philosophy . I have great days but too many bad days!! However, there is some reassurance in knowing that some of the principle aspects of a great player’s technique have a sound engineering TGM basis. For example :-

I can see many links to Hogan ( PP3 and PP1 are well described (in English rather than TGM-ese!!) in chapter 1 “the grip” in the Modern Fundamentals of Golf) . Such consistencies between a great striker like Hogan and TGM give one confidence to press ahead with swing experiments. If a detail is shared between many great strikers and backed up by science then I am more prone to experiment myself.

I am also sold on the straight , vertical left wrist - and there are some great pics on this site of Hogan and Trevino and Yoda demonstrating this.

I have seen some posts from Brady Riggs ( ? on manzella site) where he seems to be “playfully” putting up pictures of Brad Faxon ( poor overall Driving stats – but straight left wrist at impact) against Retief Goosen ( better stats and bent left wrist) and asking who is the better ball striker !!. I say "playfully" because I am sure that he does not teach bent wrist impact. My response to this seemingly "damning evidence" re. the importance of straight left wrist is that nobody knows where those balls landed, what hinge involved or how wild Brad Faxon would be if he DIDN’T have a straight left wrist!! ( vica versa for Goosen if he were to straighten wrist – but please understand that I am not going to send him a Tac Tic!!);) .

It is only by asking questions like this that lead to greater understanding of what is really important in the golf swing and Redgoat has an outstanding selection of photos to use as reference material for discussion.

I am fascinated by the right forearm and have read many of the posts after extensive searches. I am alarmed to realise that such a crucial element has never entered into any of the teaching i have ever received ( all NON - AI instruction)

One of the areas I find hard to understand and find "PGA -pro" evidence for is the right elbow position at address .TGM sets out a “Basic pattern” for drive loading and drag loading( 12-1-0 and 12-2-0)which involves zero plane angle variation and plane angle basic on “turned shoulder”. This appears to be a sound mechanical position for the simplest, most secure , yet powerful, swing. Homer says plane variations can be hazardous 10-6-B and "turned shoulder... has far better performance characteristics than any other"

This position is illustrated in photos in TGM 9-2-1 #2 "preliminary address" and 10-6-B #1. Right forearm is on same plane as clubshaft (elbow in line with shaft extension). This is a position rarely seen by top pros today who appear to have elbows on a more inclined plane than the clubshaft at address. There is a good photo on redgoat website showing forearm to shaft angle at address ( on Ernie Els section) where it is measured at 145 degrees for Ernie and Tiger - ie. not 180 degrees . Very few pros have any fix other than a forward press , which does not realign the forearm and shaft at all but only leans shaft forward. This immediately puts them into a basic swing pattern requiring single or double plane variation because at impact the is good photo evidence that they achieve forearm/ shaft alignment.

I make that sound like a "statement of fact" but i am really expressing MY limited understanding and am hopefully going to be corrected if need be!!

In 7-7 Homer states that due to “personal preference…it is not always possible to adhere to a single inclined plane classification throughout the whole swing” but goes on to stress the importance of the forearm at impact. This makes sense but why is it that almost all top pros have some “personal preference, natural inclination or pressure of conditions” ( 7-7) that means that they shift planes!!

Is there something about the human anatomy (eg. upper arm : foream length ratio ) that makes this variation of swing pattern difficult for top pros to adhere too ?

Please understand that I ask this question as a beginner( to TGM) who has experimented with the pattern described in TGM 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 but find my hands are unusually high and the ball-striking variable. Should I persist or do I have some “personal preference, natural inclination or pressure of conditions” ( 7-7) which means I should alter my pattern to shift planes? If so what is this “preference” which is leading me toward a mechanically more complicated swing - something I am not consciously looking for!! Unless there is some power, accuracy advantage – unlikely!


Please try and follow the following line of thought to see if my logic is correct. Best done with club and ball available...

1. Take up a "typical" address position, trying to mimic tour pro with hands centrebody/slightly forward with irons but elbows on a more inclined plane than clubshaft. Feels normal to me and similar to Tiger/Ernie etc

2. Now try and get the elbows on same plane as shaft at address. This seems to be possible by two differing ways (if hands stay in same position relative to body ( ie hands not lean forward))- either

a)club and ball position stay constant and shoulders have to rise. ( this address position mimics some poor impact positions of golfers who do not lean shaft forward IMO - they lose body angles, hit ball with sweetspot but look awful - up on tip-toes)

or

b)shoulder position and body angles stay constant, ball is stationary BUT clubhead moves forward to a position where hosel is next to ball.( clearly a bad move but surely a possible shank impact explanation for golfer who is set up as above and is working on maintaining body angles ( eg. butt against the wall etc) BUT does not lean the clubshaft forward)

3. The only way to set up as above (see section 1) and then change to elbow in line with clubshaft at impact, whilst maintaining body angles and clubhead -to-ball relationship is to lean the shaft forward - I think!! This seems to me what impact fix is all about- real impact fix not just forward press. If so then why is this exaggerated fix not seen more commonly in PGA pro photos?

Again my previous education has been about body angles etc but it only works if the shaft leans forward!!

Given that most pros adopt address position with right elbow not on shaft plane line , clubhead sweetspot against ball centre and hands mid body/ mildly forward for iron but do achieve right elbow on shaft plane line at impact - then they must be leaning the shaft forward, even without going through an obvious "impact fix"position.

Does any of this make sense?

Thanks for taking the time to read it!

Richard

A couple of things:

1. While the pros at Address usually have a Bent Left Wrist and their Right Forearm above the Clubshaft (below Plane), at Impact their Left Wrists are Flat or Arched and their Right Forearm is in-line with the Clubshaft.

2. You're right, the pros don't go into Impact Fix and verifty their Alignments (Flat Left Wrist; On Plane Right Forearm; Left Shoulder much higher than Right Shoulder; Clubface position reltive to the Angle of Approach for the Hinge Action they plan to use;...etc.). They start at Adjusted Address, which is in the book. And yes, at Adjusted Address, the Left Wrist is Bent, the Right Forearm isn't On Plane (because the Hands drop closer to the ground as you move from Fix to Adjusted Address), and the Shoulders are more level than their position at Impact Fix. Oh, and the Clubface closes as you move from Fix to AA, too.

It is your choice as to whether you want to begin Start Up from Impact Fix, modified Impact Fix, or Adjusted Address. Starting from Adjusted Address has its advantages for Swingers (most pros are Swingers, which is why you see so many of them use Adjusted Address); Hitters should start from a modified Impact Fix (Flat Left Wrist) with their Hips pre-closed.

****************

General Observation Based On Pro Golfers And NOT A Criticism Of Your Question!

Personally, I don't care what the pros do. I believe that they are basically idiot savants who are born with the gift of Educated Hands which can easily compensate for some of the crazy stuff they do. As Chuck Evans says, "They're skilled hand manipulators." Consequently, I don't find much value in imitating what they do, since my Hands aren't as educated as theirs.

Bulldog,

In the future, I think you will get more reponses to your posts if you can figure out a way to make them more concise.

Bulldog,

For a pro 'TGM-model', could I suggest you take a look at Joe Durant. He is coached by Ron Gring, who is TGM trained and has excellent ballstriking stats (very near the top of PGA players), a very nice simple swing, and a right forearm that is onplane (or very close to it) at address. I think a video can be found of him at a site called golfswing.com (which looks a bit dodgy by the way, but has some nice swing videos).

Kind regards,
Chris

Clubshaft Angle at Address versus Impact
 

One last thing: According to Chuck Evans, Ben Hogan and Mo Norman--two of the best ballstrikers ever--had the least amount of change in the angle of the Clubshaft from Address to Impact that he has measured on video.

#3 accumulator at address
 

I have gone through phases of Hitting and Swinging this year and have settled on Swinging as my preferred method.

When hitting, I set up at impact fix with my right forearm on-plane.

When swinging, I set up at adjusted address after getting my head position by checking impact fix fist. Going to adjusted address is simply relaxing my arms after checking impact fix. I then have a bent left wrist, flat right wrist at address and my right forearm is slightly below plane due to my adding a bit more #3 accumulator when I relax into adjusted address.

Note: My head does not move when I go from impact fix to adjusted address. And whether hitting or swinging, my left wrist is flat and my right forearm is on plane at impact.

Regarding Faxon vs Goosen: Faxon is slightly more accurate but Goosen outdives him by 20yds. However, neither are super accurate at 138th and 157th respectively.

Question for Trig (and everyone else)
 

Trig,

With regard to your statement,"... my right forearm is slightly below plane due to my adding a bit more #3 accumulator when I relax into adjusted address.", I have some questions.

1. Can you explain what you mean by your right forearm being "below plane?" To which plane are you referring? Does this mean that your right arm is below the shaft at address?
2. What does it mean to add more #3 acumulator? I just looked in the book, and don't understand Homer's explanation or what it is that you do.
3. Perhaps more importantly, I don't see how my right forearm could possibly be "on plane" (in line?) with the shaft at adjusted address. I just tried this with my sand wedge. At adjusted address,my hands and the the butt of the shaft are on my left thigh and the club face is behind my right foot. My right forearm is most definitely not on plane with the shaft; rather my forearm is at an angle of approximately 60 degrees to the shaft. How could I possibly get my right forearm in line with the shaft without destroying my flying wedges?
4. Am I simply incorrect as to what "on plane" means?
5. Am I correct that the "flying wedges" refer to the angle between the arms and the shaft?

Thank you very much.

teach
.

My take
 

Here's my best effort at answering your questions:

1. Slightly below plane, meaning not exactly inline with the shaft, but instead the arm just slightly lower - I checked my mirror tonight and it's only very slightly below plane when at adjusted address.

2. I mis-spoke and meant to say #2, accumulator - which is the amount of cock in your left wrist. When I go to adjusted address I get a tad more than I have than when starting at impact fix. I think to be text-book, one would not allow this to happen and one would maintain the Level condition of the left wrist, even at adjusted address. As Yoda recently told me, TGM is a "high hands system", not a "low hands system".

3. Ideally your right forearm will be on-plane with the shaft both at address and at impact. Impact being the most important one. Check out the gallery and watch the video called "Right Forearm, Holies and Polies". Yoda gives the student (which happens to be me in the video) a lesson on how to get the right forearm on plane at address. You can see the on-plane position from behind and it doesn't matter how much your right wrist is bent. A front view you would see the wedges intact as you mention.

4. I hope the above clears up what "on plane" means when we are talking about the right forearm.

5. Do Forum search on Flying Wedges and you will find some great explanations. I think of it as maintaining a bent right wrist, flat left wrist throughout the downstroke, impact, and into follow through.

Again, go to the Forum Archives and search for some of these topics and you will find a load of information.

Alignments, where it matters
 

And then again, Homer personally really didn't care how you took it back, as long as from release through impact your alignments are dead-solid, perfect.

It helps to have the right forearm on plane at address, but it's not a requirement. There are many other things a swinger and hitter can do to make it easier to lessen all the extra movements prior to release.

The right forearm on plane at address is just one.

Bagger

A lot of questions- that’s good !! I'll take number five:

The FWs are formed by the flat left wrist which ONLY moves up & down- vertically. It is acc#2 and acc#3. The is the Left Arm Flying Wedge. And by the bent right wrist which can only move Horizontally, never vertically and is called the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Put them together on the club and you have G.O.L.F.

Check out how Acc#2 and 3 work in the “Are you Ready to Roll” video clip (sorry guys I do love that clip- FogBuster 101).

Plane and flying wedges
 

Thank you for your replies. I watched the video clips that were mentioned, as well as the one on delivery path and flying wedges. I also read every single post in the archives on flying wedges. To me, there still seems to be a contradiction between the right forearm being on plane at address and having a right forearm flying wedge, but I'm going to let this incubate for a while. I think that I'm missing some crucial point or definition.

teach

Teach,

To try and help, and some of this may be obvious to you, but if so just ignore.

First, onplane means from the down the line view not the face on view. Again, this may be obvious, but from your earlier post it looked like possibly you might have been meaning onplane/inline, as if this meant from looking face on at the player.

Secondly, for someone starting at adjusted address (that is the classic, mid body hands address position, usually with a bent left wrist and relatively flat right wrist), the flying wedges are not set up - they are set during the swing when the right wrist bends (to the point it will be bent at at impact).

Thirdly, to get the right forearm on plane at address, you need pretty high hands. If from down the line the shaft and your right forearm are not onplane at address (in a straight line) - which is what you see in most players, tour players incuded), just try raising your hands (this is no substitute for impact fix though - see the archives on impact fix!). Also, while much instruction suggests a finger grip for the right hand, TGM prescribes much more of a palm grip. There are posts on this in the forum. The grip lies in the cup of your right hand and this makes it much easier to get the right forearm on plane. And the level condition which is prescribed for the right wrist throughout the swing is not the natural condition of your hand at rest (or its not for me anyway) - it is more uncocked - so if you held your hand up vertically with your pinky finger closest to the ground, all your fingers would point down somewhat in relation to your right forearm. Looking at your palm there would be a straight line from your wrist to the first knuckle of your thumb, extending up your arm.

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you more! Again, sorry if some of this was obvious.

Chris

In Line Obsession
 

The Right Forearm will never be perfectly On Plane and in-line with the Clubshaft (as it should be at Impact) when using Standard Address (10-9-A). This is because the Right Shoulder is almost always off plane (above plane) at Address, but On Plane at Impact (via Axis Tilt at Start Down).

Understandable obsession!
 

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice

Much of the "forearm obsession" may stem from the emphasis that the book and websites places on this relative to other teaching methods. For me, there are not many other teachers / books which comment on the right forearm position as much as TGM. So for somebone brand new to TGM this is an exciting area of thought - even a glimpse of some "secret" to a desperate hacker , whilst for experienced TGM readers it is merely one piece of the familiar jigsaw.

Remember that the patterns set out in 12-1-0 amd 12-2-0 both describe turned shoulder plane and zero axis shift - i presume these require forearm aligment in line with turned shoulder at impact and at address in order to be classified as "zero shift". These create a swing which is unfamiliar to non TGM people, so when i first read this section i was naturally intrigued but suspicious. If this is mechanically simple why is it not used more often ? I still have not read any answer which explains this other than "TGM does not require ...only advise" type reply.

I understand that TGM is not just about teaching one swing method but allowing mutually compatible components to be mixed BUT if Homer went to the trouble of setting out these examples and saying "avoid 'customising' it with other variations until it approaches the 'expert' stage" then he must have considered them important. There are either alot of 'experts' or it is an uncomfortable way to swing for a human being because it is rarely seen on the course!

These are not 'absolute' critisisms of the book just a frustrated learner trying to understand. My mind is still open but has a sceptical, questioning nature.

PS CHris NZ i think you make very valid points - nice and simple to understand:) - thanks.

Fog lifted!
 

ChrisNZ,

Thank you very much! I needed someone to "state the obvious" because what you pointed out had not been obvious to me! I *was* thinking in terms of looking down at the shaft from my view at address.

The biggest problem that I have with the book and the way that TGMers refer to it is with "planes" in general. There are many different planes and I often see sentences such as, "Turn your hands to the plane, bring the shaft and clubhead to the plane, go to follow through, use on plane hinge action, then swivel to the plane." On plane to WHAT?! I realize that Homer was an engineer, but what would be so terrible about using the terms, "target line" and "club path?"

Oh well. I needed to vent. Golfbulldog, I apologize for somewhat threadjacking your original post. Thanks again, ChrisNZ and everyone else who responded.

teach

On Active Duty At Lynn Blake Golf
 

Chris,

Your reply post to Teach above containing the quoted excertps was sensational. Thanks!

Teach,

"Planes" may be easier to deal with if you remember that they're strictly about the orientation of the clubSHAFT - which is either On Plane (i.e. lowest end pointing at the Plane Line) or not. Whether you're trying to turn your hands to the Plane, or swivel back to the Plane, or whatever, it's always about doing so while maintaining that orientation of the clubshaft.

I try to recite my mantra every day: Plane is clubSHAFT control, Lag is clubHEAD control, and Flat Left Wrist is clubFACE control. :p

Thank you
 

Thanks, TGMfan. That was helpful.

teach

When The Shell Is Broken, The Bird Will Fly
 

Teach,

To communicate in English requires that you know the English language.

To communicate in Spanish requires that you know the Spanish language.

To communicate in G.O.L.F. requires that you know the G.O.L.F. language.

So much that is not defined in conventional golf instruction is defined in The Golfing Machine®. To speak in 'Pennsylvania Dutch' just doesn't get it.

Learn the G.O.L.F. language.

And break the bonds that have so long constrained your Game.

Plane Plain
 

Teach,

We can help you clear this Plane thing up . . . The word PLANE shows up in the book and on the forums in MANY contexts. So it is important that you understand the context in which PLANE is being used. You got your "On-Plane", "Plane Line", "Plane Angle", "Bent Plane Line", "Plane Shifts", "In the Plane of's", "Plain Shrimp", "Shrimp Salad", "Shrimp Scampi", "Fried Shrimp", "Boiled Shrimp", "Broiled Shrimp", "Shrimp Burga" etc. etc.

Let's see if ole Mr. K can help you out . . .

PLANE GEOMETRY
We of the Koolaid Stained Shirt live GEOMETRY. The beautiful science of relationships (we ain't talkin' the Dr. Phil kind). It is ALIGNMENTS. It is the FOUNDATION. Plane is first mentioned on Page 2.

1-C GEOMETRY It’s not the theorems but merely the shapes and lines of Plane Geometry – familiar to all – that are used herein. Most useful are lines and relationships that are flat, parallel, horizontal, vertical, straight, On Plane or centered because their precision can be checked visually – there is no question of degree in such alignments.

INCLINED PLANE
From these relationships and alignments we construct our Machine. And like Mr. K said not no wooden dug out rinky dink stump canoe. BUT a BATTLESHIP constructed by many pieces. Our Machine has 3 functions that it MUST control. Say 'em with me now clubFACE!!! clubSHAFT!!! and clubHEAD!!! I can't hear you!!! The ole Hinge Action of an Angular Motion on an INCLINED PLANE.

and guess what . . . per 1-L the Machine Concept A. The Inclined Plane is Clubshaft Control – See 2-F and 4-0 You must control your SHAFT (uh huh). Per 1-L, The Clubshaft lies full length on a flat tilted plane. Your clubshaft basically lays on a ROOF. Some Roofs is steep. Some Roofs ain't. AND your Roof can move . . . But it's GUTTER can't (or shouldn't anyway). The 3rd Imperative is A STRAIGHT PLANE LINE.

STRAIGHT PLANE LINE
Your Roof's Gutter is your Plane Line. And your Plane Line AIN'T always your target line (or Line of Flight). So how do you check if you are on Plane? 1-L says The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other. Easy enough. Point the head end or the butt end at a straight line unless the club is parallel to the line . . . the Plane Line not the target line. Think of Lee Trevino and Bruce Leaky.

PLANE OF MOTION
Because you stand to the SIDE of the ball and because of the design of your club. You stand with your head stickin' out of the ROOF. Depending on the steepness of your ROOF (Plane Angle), it just may be your noggin stickin' out. OR if it's flatter, you may be stickin' out from your big ass up. The implication of you stickin' out of this ROOF is that the club moves BACK, UP and IN. From "in front of you" to "behind you." Per 2-C-0, a Three Dimensional Downstroke – that is DOWNward (Attack Angle) AND OUTward (Plane Angle) AND FORward (Approach Angle) You are DOWN, OUT and FORWARD BECAUSE you swing on an Inclined Plane (ROOF).

2-F PLANE OF MOTION All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumference of the stroke – in every direction. The full length of the Clubshaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane – Waggle to Follow-through. Every other Component of the Stroke must be adjusted to comply with that requirement
Who's your DADDY? THE PLANE IS YOUR DADDY!!!

IN THE PLANE OF . . .
He said, "EVERY OTHER COMPONENT MUST BE ADJUSTED TO COMPLY." This is where it gets fun. Your BODY (hands, shoulders, the RIGHT FOREARM) must COMPLY to the Inclined Plane. So also in 2-F it follows . . .

That includes the Right Forearm. See 5-0. The player must hold the Forearm in the Feel of the same plane per 7-3, dynamically in-line. Picture the javelin thrower with the right elbow and On Plane right forearm leading the hand toward the target (Delivery Line) all during Delivery. See 6-B-1. The Right Forearm of every Hacker comes into Impact too high – pointing beyond the Delivery Line during Downstroke (2-J-3, 7-3). Study 2-G and Components 5, 6, and 7.

Picture the JAVELIN THROWER. The javelin is IN THE SAME PLANE AS THE THROWER'S RIGHT FOREARM. This assembly, the Right Forearm (not the WHOLE right arm but the Right FOREARM) and the javelin move in a VERTICAL PLANE. So now in your mind . . . just bend that ole Javelin Thrower over (uh huh) at the hips into a golf posture. This is how you want to move this Structure, this assembly, that is your Right FOREARM FOREARM FOREARM Flying Wedge through the ball.

3 BASIC PLANES AND HINGING
Now, forget about the Roof for a second. Let's talk swinging DOORS. What does a door swing on? Uh a HINGE right? Holla! So how many ways could you mount a door? 3!!!!!

1. You got your everyday come on in the house door . . . Hinge mounted vertical to the ground. BUT the DOOR moves in a HORIZONTAL PLANE.
2. You got your Trap DOOR . . . hinge mounted horizontal . . . but door moves on a VERTICAL PLANE
3. Then let's say you mount a door on roof. That's ANGLED PLANE OF MOTION.

3 Types of Doors 3 Types of BASIC PLANES (VERTICAL HORIZONTAL ANGLED) 3 Types of HINGE ACTION

PLANE ANGLES AND PLANE SHIFTS
Your ROOF can change pitch for the situation at hand or even SHIFT. Per 7-7:

Players often – consciously or subconsciously – employ more than one of the “natural” Planes. The Shoulder Planes are the more consciously employed – the Elbow Plane the more – almost totally – subconsciously used. Vaguely or incorrectly defined Planes and Variations must be eliminated. The list is restricted to those of fairly common usage – good and bad. Other than the Right Shoulder positions, only the Elbow reference point has any great general usefulness. The “Hand Angle” is emergency or special purpose application. Wrist Action and the selected Inclined Plane must be compatible – watch especially with “No Wristcock” Strokes.

During any Shift of Planes the Clubshaft is held On Plane with the Plane Line as though the Plane itself were moving to the new location. Other controlled procedures that achieve On Plane Impact may be more difficult but need not be deemed improper. Such as positioning the Clubshaft at The Top of the Plane Angle intended for Release.

10-7-0 GENERAL Plane Angle Variations are classified according to the shifts in Plane Angle of the Stroke path. A shift may be made (1) during the Backstroke (2) during the Downstroke, or (3) at the Top of the Stroke

Hope this helps make plain some of the PLANE stuff.

B

The shell is breaking, but...
 

Yoda,

As a teacher myself, I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I am in the process of trying to learn this new language. I have read Homer's book in the prescribed order twice. Over the last two weeks, I have printed every single explanatory post on the major components and principles of TGM from the archives here, and from the forums at Brian's site and Chuck's site. I then placed these print-outs into large envelopes and have begun to study these pages in what seems to be a logical sequence; hence my question regarding address position. As I go through my envelopes, I will certainly have more questions.

In addition to my "book" study, I have taken three lessons with a local G.S.E.M., Rick Nielsen (with another lesson scheduled for Saturday), and go to my back yard every day to practice my chipping, my impact bag work, and my dowel work in thirty degree weather. Clearly, I have made a major commitment to the *principles* of TGM.

Having hopefully established my bona fides concerning my work ethic, I respectfully, but vehemently, disagree with the linguistic approach taken by many TGM afficianados. I don't feel that I should have to keep Mr. Kelly's book next to my computer, so that I can look up the various chapter references that are made in many of the posts. I would have come to TGM a year ago, were it not for the fact that my first exposure to it came on fgi.com, where a poster constantly made statements along the lines of "trace pp#3 along the plane, then release accumulator #2." This, to me, was and is exclusionary jargon, not a clarifying language. This usage is frankly elitist. And that is the crux of my point. I have seen countless posts decrying the lack of recognition of TGM; yet there seems to be a subconscious need on the part of its followers to keep TGM as our own little secret.

My understanding is that one of your main goals is to bring TGM to the masses. If I am correct about that, then why can't "the right index finger" be used in a sentence, rather than PP#3? Why should I, or anyone else, *have* to learn a new language? Why should "lifting the fog" have to be one of the most frequently encountered terms on the three TGM-oriented forums? After all, the *ideas* of Mr. Kelly are really not that complicated.

Believe me, my intent is not to start an argument with you, or with anyone else. Every single person who has replied to a question of mine has been both generous and clear. However, as a recent convert, I can state with total confidence, that the apparent need to learn a new language has prevented thousands of golfers from becoming G.O.L.F.ers. I know, because I was very nearly one of them.

Respectfully,

teach

Thank you 12 piece bucket
 

Wow! 12 piece, you are a prince. These many different uses of the word, "plane" were definitely a problem for me, mainly because I often could not tell which plane was being referenced. I very much appreciate your taking the time to respond so thoroughly. I'm going to print your post to keep as my "cheat sheet." Oops, a teacher should never use that term:)

Thanks again.

teach

P.S.- If it's not too personal, I'm curious about the origin of your screen name.

No problem! I learned a lot while writing! It was a win-win.

Origin . . . fat southern people LOVE fried chicken.

What I like about the lingo
 

Teach,

I hear what you are saying regarding the lingo. I'm sure as a teacher it's virtually impossible for you to throw out TGM lingo to a student who obviously wouldn't have a clue what you are talking about. You probably also can't expect your students to read and absorb the book.

Having said all of that, what I really like about the book is Homer Kelley identified components and gave them names. With the components identified and named, it becomes very easy to talk very specifically with others who are also familiar with the book and the terms. I'm very analytical and so I LOVE that TGM is written just like it is written.

I like being able to say "right forearm flying wedge" and know exactly what that means without having to describe it with 5 or more sentences.

There are certainly a lot of people on this site who are very literate with the TGM lingo and so you will see it being used in many discussions here. I wouldn't label that "elitist" necessarily.

I also believe most golfers out there will never want to be bothered with learing any of the TGM technical terms. I think that is where the challenge lies for the teachers out there. Most golfers are not students of the swing. They just want their slices cured! :smile:

Re: the lingo
 

Trig,

I see your point. It's just that I get frustrated at times, as I try to learn the lingo. To use your example of the flying wedges, I probably need those 5 or more sentences to make sure that I understand them. Once, I *do* understand them, then I can speak about them, but only with other TGMers. Having said that, you're undoubtedly correct that most golfers could not care less about the terminology.

To clarify where I'm coming from as a teacher, I teach U.S. History, not golf, but I believe that the learning principles are the same. Every single day, I take the most important concept of the lesson, and dramatize it with my students.As an example, when I want to show why our first foreign policy was one of isolationism, I walk into the room wearing a diaper over my pants. The kids go wild because I look ridiculous, but they see that we were too young as a nation to get involved overseas. The point is, I go "where the students are" at first. Then I can stretch them intellectually. First I hit them with the slapstick, then they can learn to back up their thesis statements with evidence, etc. They don't need an AI to translate for them and they don't need to learn a new language.

I just feel that Homer's ideas were fantastic, but that the golf world badly needs "TGM For Dummies." Thanks for your thoughtful response.

teach

Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!
 

Teach,

You are currently on TGM for Dummies. LBG can take you to the land of milk and honey. I know what you teachers like to say, "there are no stupid questions." Ask and you shall recieve.

Start a new thread. You will be lead from the dark to the light.

Where are you located? If you REALLY want to get this stuff in your coconut, go see Yoda. What is very difficult in the book can be communicated much more effectively via demonstration. If there were ever TGM Jeopardy, everyone is playing for a distant second to Yoda (I'm talking LIGHT-YEARS!). Make a trip to the Swamp. I did it last January. It was worth every penny.

In the meantime, start new threads. Ask questions. Help is plentiful. Or PM me. I'm no expert but I'll try to help you out.

You can do this! History is WAY harder than TGM.

Bucket

Re: Oooh...!
 

Hey, 12 piece; you cracked me up. I will definitely post new threads as I continue my studies. I have a good AI here in New York, Rick Nielsen, but a trip to see Yoda is in my plans. As for TGM being easier than History, not to this hacker!:)

teach