New to TGM - what concepts should I focus on?
 

Definitely losing some posture through the shot. I've worked hard on getting the club up on plane better. More work seems to be necessary, but I'm wondering if part of the below plane look is due to bending the right hand. Not sure. I'm also curious... what do you think my handicap is?

Thanks

hinging
 

I'm not one of the experts here but.......
I think what you've tried to illustrate as horisontal hinging (frame 12) is actually vertical hinging.

Focus on the Flying wedges, the imperativs and essentials.

By the way I think you're a 6 handicap:rolleyes: just a wild guess.

My Bad!
 

I meant verticle. that clubface is looking at the moon.

this one probably felt a little heavier than most...

Handicap guess
 

I'd guess 21.2

I would guess single figures - however what a great example of how to post images and text for discussing swing components. When an image is combined with the discussion it is so much easier to follow.

What did you use to create those composites? Very cool way of doing it. I'm too green to comment on the swing, but I do see some movement (sway) in the second set.

Swing Analysis...
 

Hi roll-gybe,

Seems like you are asking two separate questions here.

1) An analysis of your swing along with a stab at what your handicap is.

2) How to study TGM

My answers....

1) First, your handicap is whatever you want it to be! I am teasing, but from your swing sequences ALONE, I would say it is in the mid-teens, probably a solid 18?

Address 8-3: (Frame 1 - Head On View)

Your head is not centered in the middle of your stance.
Per 1-L-1: " The Stationary Post (player's head) accurately returns the Clubhead through the ball (Centered Arc)

You can do 1-L-1 two ways, with no compensations (setting up with a centered head) and with compensations (getting the head back to center of the stance at impact - assuming a correct ball position for straightaway ball flight).

Your uncentered head may be an attempt to try to "stay behind" the ball for whatever reason you may have. Also in trying to look at the back of the ball, instead of focusing the eyes, you have moved the neck and as a result the head moves back of center.

The head is always related to low point and when you set the head back of center, the low point correspondingly moves backwards.

If ball position is not compensated, fat shots are the result. Your swaying, the Fourth Snare per 3-F-7-D, will further increase the likelihood of hitting fat shots if the compensation is not made.

Per 1-L-2: "The Post may turn (Pivot) but does not "sway" or "bob".

Per 6-F-2, "Compensations are like temporary taxes - seldom eliminated and soon forgotten."

In addition, your Right Forearm and your clubshaft are on separate planes. Please compare with Frame 10 in the Down The Line sequence. Notice that at proper impact, the right forearm and the shaft are in the same line.

If you do not have this alignment at address, yet another compensation has to be made to get them to match up at impact.

Per 7-3: "ALWAYS, for all procedures, the Right Forearm is positioned "On Plane" - pointing at the Plane Line as the Angle of Attack (2-N)."

Please see 9-2-3 #1 in this respect.

Also per 5-0, tracing the plane line to ensure an on plane swing per 1-L-6 is "done as though a flashlight were lashed to the Right Forearm with the #3 Pressure Point as the lens causing its beam to move along the Reference Line."

Start Up 8-4: (Frames 2 Down The Line View)

It appears that you have correctly applied a Standard Wrist Action per 10-18-A, ideal for a swinger's swinging motion per 7-9.

Backstroke 8-5: (Frames 2,3,4 and 5 Down The Line View)

Your clubshaft is under the established plane that you are swinging on which is the Turned Shoulder Plane per 10-6-B.

Per 10-6-B: "This Plane Angle has far better performance characteristics than any other because any Plane Angle Shift is very hazardous.

This procedure does not refer to the disruptive Shoulder Turn Takeaway - which is always too "Flat" and/or too "Low" making a Plane Angle Shift mandatory and usually unintentional and unsuspected."

Read the paragraph above carefully. This concerns you.

You are using a Shoulder Turn Takeaway which is why you are under plane. Instead of your current procedure, Mr. Kelly recommends the Right Forearm Takeaway.

Per 2-F: "But precision is lost unless Start Up is a Three Dimensional parallel to the Three Dimensional Impact, i.e., the Clubhead moves Backward, Upward and Inward - On Plane - INSTANTLY AND SIMULTANEOUSLY." This in essence is the Right Forearm Takeaway.

The only instance where the Shoulder Turn Takeaway has pratical application is a "Relative Translation procedure (3-B) to true "Hand Controlled Pivot" procedures." - 10-24-F

This occurs when one is trying to coordinate Zone 1 (9-1) with Zones 2 and 3 (9-2/3).

Per 9-2: "Zone #3 can never be any better than its Zones #1 and #2 support."

You are using a Double Shift Plane Angle Variation per 10-7-C.
Again, please see what I wrote about compensations above.

You should strive for a Zero Shift per 10-7-A, simply because it is easier to do so.

Per 1-H: " Component Variations are listed progressively - that is, where possible, from the simplest to the most sophisticated or else from the least restrictive to Zero."

Per 3-0: "This book presents the "uncompensated" Stroke as a goal, guide and progress report, not as the minimum entrance test."

Top 8-6: (Frame 8 Face on and Frame 7 Down The Line)

You have an End Power Package Assembly Point per 10-21-C, which requires you to use a Top Arc and Straight Line Delivery Path per 10-23-C.

This is because the hands have to travel back down to the right shoulder for "When the Shoulder moves on the same Downstroke Plane as the Hands it provides its greatest support and its best guidance to the Stroke." - 7-13.

It also appears that you lack structure in your swing - the tip off being a bent left arm at the top of the backstroke.

Per 6-B-1-D: "Extensor Action is exclusively the steady effort to straighten the bent Right Arm...this action promotes:

-1. the full extension of the Left Arm at all times
-2. the full extension of the Right Arm for the Follow-through
-3. the correct rate of "Clubhead Closing"
-4. the proper type of support for "passive" Clubhead Lag Pressure involving wristcock"

At the Top position, it is also very evident now that the head is out of center...a compensation is necessary if the ball is to be hit.

Startdown 8-7: (Frame 9 Face On and Frame 8 Down The Line View)

The proper startdown sequence is always per 6-M-1: "Feet, Knees, Hips, Shoulders, Arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand rotation."

Per 7-17, a startdown that begins at the feet pulls the power package down to the ball and gives the stroke max radius. This is the gear train effect per 6-C-0 para 2.

Per 7-12, "ALL motion...prior to the Downstroke Turn, a (hip) Slide parallel to..." The hip slide should be the first "conscious" move down, but it is the feet and the knees that accomodates this hip motion and thus they react accordingly.

You appear to have done this very well, "leaving the hands" alone well enough until such a time in the downstroke where its time for them to rock.

Downstroke & Release 8-8/9: Frames 10, 11 & 12 Face On

You load the lag with a proper startdown sequence, but alas, you lose the "angle" by releasing specifically the #2 Power Accumulator per 6-B-2-0

Per 10-24-B, you appear to be using a Non-Automatic Random Sweep Release. This is compatible with your power package loading action per 10-22-B, a Random Sweep.

Per 7-20, "Sweep with Sweep, Snap with Snap etc."

However, per 6-N-0: "The earlier in the Downstroke the Release occurs, the larger, longer and slower the Release Arc will be for both Clubhead and Hands.

Other things being equal, this will require higher Hand Speed to produce yardage equivalent to that of the short, quick Arc of the Maximum Delay."

This as mentioned is related to the angle of the left wrist or the #2 Power Accumulator per 6-B-2-0.

The question that I cannot answer from looking at the pics is...do you have high hand speed? If not, you may find yourself losing distance needlessly. On a sidenote, compare the picture in my avatar to your swing. See how I sustain the angle?

Impact 8-10: Frame 13 Face On

Perfect Impact Alignment. The first two imperatives per 2-0-B-1/2 are evident here:

The Flat Left Wrist and the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point.

Hinge action occurs during the impact interval, which is the period of time when the ball is struck by the clubhead to the time when it separates from the clubface.

You say that you are reproducing a vertical hinge action per 10-10-B and indeed it is.

However, you are missing something...Lets move on to the next section.

Follow Through 8-11: Frames 14 & 15 Face On and Frames 12 & 13 Down The Line.

The follow through is the only instance in the swing where the both arms are straight. Per 6-H-C: "Take all Strokes to the Both Arms Straight Position (8-11)"

In those frames that I have highlighted, there is no "both arms straight"

The reason for this is that the right shoulder has moved off plane instead of down the turned shoulder plane. This is roundhousing per 2-N-0 and in turn it causes you to run out of right arm per 7-13.

There must always be an Underhand Pitch motion and Feel. In this stroke there was no such motion nor feel, therefore the resultant pull.

With proper shoulder motion, your divots with the sandwedge to 6 iron will point to the right of the target. Divots with the 5 iron on will be "relatively" straight.

Finish 8-12: Frame 12 Face On and Frame 15 Down The Line

Your flat downstroke shoulder turn has caused you to lose your spine angle again, another tipoff to the compensations that are present in your golf swing.

If there are any errors in my post, I would appreciate correction. Thank you.

How to Study TGM...
 

2) To answer your second question roll-gybe...

HOW TO STUDY TGM

First of all, TGM is NOT a method. It is merely a catalog of the things that happen in a golf swing and the things that should be in a effective golf swing.

The foundations of the book are the primary concepts per 1-L: "the Hinge Action (2-G) of an Angular Motion (2-K) operating on an Inclined Plane (2-F)"

The golf swing has 24 components (from putt to drive) and they each have a varying number of variations. Chapter 7 and 10

The golf swing passes through 12 sections. Chapter 8

The motion that makes up the golf stroke can be divided into 3 zones. Chapter 9

There are 20 points through which every swing must comply with in order to produce a geometrically correct swing. All these 20 points can be represented by a geometric figure. 1-L-1 to 21

The science of the book is laid out in Chapter 2.

Chapter 3 shows you the correct way to build your golf stroke.

Chapter 4 talks about Wrist Positions

Chapter 5 talks about Monitoring

Chapter 6 talks about the Power Package

Chapter 11 is a summary of the variations and outlines what are and are not compatible.

Chapter 12 contains zero compensation beginner stroke patterns for both hitting and swinging. It also contains a curriculum with which to begin learning G.O.L.F.

Chapter 13 speaks about non-interchangeable components

Chapter 14 talks about the role of the human mind in golf.

Should you study TGM with professional help? In the timeless words of Mr. Kelly: "Preferable with. Advisedly with! Imploredly with!!!"

Professional instruction can be found right here on LBG. Just send Yoda or Yodasluke a PM and I am sure they will set you on the right track.

Wow, Comdpa. That took some effort, and I sure appreciate it.

You are most welcome Vandal...:)

fingers cramping there compda?:D

In addition to Compda's well laid out comments...

Despite some backswing/takeaway issues as noted, you are in a pretty decent position at the top, and are in solid balance, much better than most.

One area to focus on that I think will get you in far better impact and follow through position - lead forearm rotation.

In short, do some range work trying to hook the heck out of the ball - the trick is to always start the ball out to 'right field'. Do whatever you need to to get the 'feel' that the back of your left hand faces the ground past impact.

Some split grip drills should help you get the feel of 'out to right field'.

Once you can hit the big sweep hook, you should be able to 'smooth out' the lead forearm rotation to match the rpm's of your torso - keeping the hands and chest moving through together. The feel of the 'heavy' SWINGING club.

You may also want to read through the references in my signature. A good 'short course' in TGM concepts.

first post on Lynn's site!

On the backswing, the rotation appears to be greater than the "standard 1/4 roll/rotation", thus placing the clubface in a laid off or under plane position.

In general, on the backswing at club parallel position, should there be more right forearm peeking over the left? And should this peek continue to arm parallel as well?

Not yet JJ, not yet! :)

WOW comdpa, EdZ, tourdeep...
I have many questions, but I will try to digest and understand first. This is exactly why I was attracted to TGM. Pretty exciting.

As far as handspeed: I'm not sure if we are discussing the same thing, but my instructor keeps telling me my hands are too fast. I think he is referring to throwaway. generally, i have fast hands. if it's any gauge, my 7 iron is my 165 club.

As far as video capture: I used my mini DV camera and imported into msft movie maker. i saved as jpegs a the shots you see. then i imported them into powerpoint, grouped them and saved as a jpeg again. it sounds like a pain, but it's foolishly easy.

For those who have not the chance to meet a TGM AI, connecting to LBG forum is nevertheless a real bargain.
(one more...) great post, Mr Slinger, a pretty good "Yellow book" workshop. :)
Thanks to you, and to Roll-gybe for posting the materiel
Merci
PM

Merci PM,

I agree with you that LBG is a real bargain if one cannot get a session with an A.I.

The stuff that I learnt here was truly mind blowing even though I was certified by a former GSED.

Comdpa,

Great post! The way you've broken down the swing sequence with specific references on cause/effect/correction in TGM terms really helps to clarify those references.

Thanks for putting in the effort.

Good stuff,

Comet

Thank you Comet, I am glad you like it - it is people like you that makes it all worth the effort.

Incredibly generous
 

Comdpa,

Your generosity is awe-inspiring. You have made many friends who have not had the pleasure of meeting you. Regards,

teach

Hi Teach,

I am giving back what I have been given by the awesome LBG commmunity. Thank you for your kind words....;)
Maybe in the future we will have the opportunity to cross paths with one another.

roll_gybe, nice job on the pictures, labels to support your question.

compda, well the best write up to date that I had seen analzying a golf stroke was by Yoda last month, can't remember the thread, but it was concise,yet detailed. Till then I had yet to really see any other analysis come close to that. Well that has changed. That was a very through analysis and easy to related to the pictures.

also a nice write up on the second question.

Wow, comdpa, way to go. Thanks for the effort.

Ok, so now I know there is fog
 

Comdpa, your post really helps me narrow down some of the material and see how it actually applies. Couple of very novice type questions to get me started:

-Stationary head: You are correct, I am trying to stay behind the ball. When I first started, I swayed my hips badly. Then an instructor told me to keep my head still. I began turning around my eyes and developed an ugly reverse pivot. Then a new instructor taught me to turn around my spine. He also added the spine tilt. Kinda more like you might see in a golfdigest article.

So does spine tilt still apply? If so, how do you get your head in the center of your feet?

As you turn, should your butt move back to the target? I’m not sure how to make the proper TGM movement.

-Right Forearm: I thought that looked ok at impact. Is there something I am misinterpreting? Where do you see it off plane. My apologies: I have had a tough time understanding this one for some reason. I’ve read it over and over again, and it’s just not clicking. How can my left wrist cock (yes w/right elbow) if my right forearm is on line with the shaft. I’m not so sure my body can do that, which leads me to believe I’m missing the essence.

As for the RF Pickup, what are you tracing? Is it the shining of the light on the corner of the wall? When in the backswing do you feel torque?

- Sustaining #2: How do you accomplish this? I rehearse it in my practice swing by feeling my rt forearm moving parallel to the ground across my right foot. Is that right? Can’t be b/c it doesn’t work. Are you pulling with the biceps? Is the right hand pulling up on PP#3? I’d love to have a snap release. Screw this sweep thing, right?

- Right Shoulder – where do you see it roundhousing? I am sure it does, but I need more clarification. My conscious thought in this swing was to make a slight pause at the top to leave my hands while I moved my hips back to center. I thought this would bring the shoulder down. I’ve tried to swing by starting the shoulder down first. The problem has been a push slice and weak contact with longer clubs. Shorter irons are ok with this method, which feels like a more right-sided move.

I wish I could be more specific, but I guess that is part of the goal. I appreciate all the feedback. Now I just have to take my understanding a step farther and get the most out of all your effort!

Yoda's post
 

Hi Martee
Sharing your opinion ++
Suppose Yoda's thread was #9 in
http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=1978
Most of great technical posts are secured in my library :)
PM

Thank y'all for the kind words.

Hey buddy...

Would love to answer your questions, but I just finished a gruelling 23 hour journey back home to sunny Singapore.

Was just contemplating a video to explain your queries...hmmm

Ok roll, I will insert my answers into your original post. Again, please feel free to correct.

cool, thanks for the response.

My question about the rear end moving toward the target relates to the backswing. I was taught that the left hip and cheek are not allowed to get closer to the target on the backswing. This is the case even if the head doesn't move closer to the target. As I play around with a pivot that keeps my head in the middle, it seems like the only way to execute that move is to allow the cheek to move down the line. I admit this looks more Hoganesque, but it feels unstable and weak. I am also a little paranoid about reverse-pivoting, so maybe these sensations are a mental constuct.

In regards to the right forarm, you comment that it should be at 90d to the shaft at the top. Where to I stand in this relation? It looks to me like my elbow is pointed too much toward vertical. Do I need to let that go out a little? Will that make it harder to get my elbow to my hip in the downswing?

I did a search for the right forarm pickup. Let me know if my interpretation sounds accurate. The right forarm starts the motion and traces the plane line. I should apply extensor action to keep the left arm gently taught. The right forarm should appear to stay above my left arm much longer than it currently does. Let me know your thoughts on that. It is a world away from what I'm doing, and I have no idea if and how it will work!

Also, could someone help me understand the plane line? I gather that it is not just the target line. Does the plane line work inside the target line?

Also, what do people mean when they refer to the right arm being perpendicular to the plane? I've seen this comment a few times.

One more (sorry) - EdZ mentioned hitting balls out to right field and hooking them back in. Easy enough if I tilt and flip! However, what should I work on to make sure I meet the FLW condition and to induce me to ROLL my wrists over? From my pics you can see that I hang on the whole way and never get the club back on plane after impact.

THANKS !

Handicap
 

Roll gybe.
I might have missed it- what's your handicap?

roll....do you have the book?

got the book
 

what should i look at?

and my hdcp is 13.7

What Should Roll Read?
 

Looks like I was quite close to the handicap prediction at '15'! Are there prizes? LOL...

I have inserted the references for you to both see the pictures as well as read the explanation. When you see the pictures please remember 2-R.