JB Holmes
 

Just watching a slow mo of his wedge to 16 today (sunday)...wow, now that's a hitter...shoulder high hands (to stop?)...no right wrist cock...super quiet lower body...and NAILS it...if someone can put some pics up it would really be nice...hp

how useful is that shot?
 

power fade with distance control amazing!!!!Ted you must have chicken skin watching this kid play:D

goose bumps
 

My goose bumps had goose bumps that had goose bumps. Love the right wrist!!

JB Holmes swing
 

Hello!
I haven`t time to watch TV at the weekend. Where can I see his swing?

Notice his putting grip....

hmmmm.... where did he come up with that? ;)

yep
 

Absolutely!!

There may be some question as to whether this guy or that guy is hitter or swinger but one look at the first swing even a novice like me could tell that swing was a classic, text book hitter.

And the thing that amazed me was that it didn't seem that difficult to do, very efficient. No bending the club past your head, no changing planes, no intricate manipulating of the wrists - just straight back, in and up on plane then BAM into the back of the ball as hard as you can. I know I couldn't hit it that far but I wonder if I watched it over and over and tried hard enough, could I possibly emulate that swing?

swingvision
 

for once kostis didn't mess with jb's swing... textbook..did anyone notice that the clubhead didn't twist through impact just on an angle down through impact loved that shaft lean..160ydpw must be nice..hope he makes the masters this year off the money list

Piece of Cake
 

Hey, I can do that. It takes me 2 shots, but... :D

All McCord could say was 'he sure hits it far with a 3/4 swing!' LMAO! ...his drive on 18 was with a "3/4 swing" also...354yd? woosh

I don't think he's a pure hitter.

Primary Colors
 

Let's hear it then Vandal. If it's not pure, then it's a swit. Otherwise it's a pure swing. There are a ton of switters on tour that get some pretty good distance. But not many that are in JB's league.
A swit can produce compression leakage and everyone is bound to have that happen, even the best of the swingers and hitters. But switters are particularly challenged with never experiencing the kind of distance and ball flight that each individual procedure has the potential to produce. So what is the primary procedure then? Is he driving, dragging, or both?

Hummmm....

Bagger

He's more of a switter than anything...i'm sure he uses active right arm thrust but he is not a text book hitter.

Reasons why below:

- His left arm turns to the plane very early
- His hands go pretty much to the end. Don't be "faked out" by how little wrist cock there is
- On the 16th tee on the CBS Swing Vision he executed a horizontal hinge. I watched for it specifically because he has the "look" of a hitter.

I say he's a hybrid....

I have no idea what he is doing Bagger; I'm way too much of a n00b to know what is what. All I know is that he does not look like a pure hitter as described here, there and other TGM sites. At first, he does. But look again. Closer. In slo-mo.

No problem, I'm just curious like everyone else. I haven't seen enough of his swing to know for certain.

Jim,

Does swivel, or plane shifts, or pivot action define hitting vs swinging? If not what...? :confused:

Thanks,

Bagger

JBHolmes video
 

Here is the swing :

http://members.cox.net/12-1-0/JBHolmes.htm
http://members.cox.net/12-1-0/JB-downtheline.mpg
Enjoy
PM

Looks like "float loading" switter.

He is both "strong" and "fast", really really fast, btw.

I do not see how he can be a pure hitter with the huge hip rotation. Maybe a 4 barrel swinger with a plane shift.

Open stance - Looks like he holds off the finish - horizontal/angled hinge to produce the fade.

hinge action?
 

"horizontal/angled", I'm confused. :???:
Do you mean horizontal in Start Up and angled through impact??

To Whom it May Concern,

There seems to be some confusion over J.B.'s swing between this site and Mr. Manzella's.

and I think Mr. Kelly gave us the answer...

phimaynard posted video and a sequence on this site...let's use it to do a 24 component checklist, and see what we got.

Now even with the checklist there could be some debate, but it would be more concrete.

Sorting Through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray

Is it Live or is it Memorex?
 

Two more question's for y'all to ponder.

If it's not 12-1-0 or 12-2-0, is it a swit?

What are the incompatiblities in hitting and swinging?
(Hint - Axe Handle vs. Rope Handle. Any others?)

Thanks,

Bagger

I don't know . . . that looks like some Paddle-Wheel motion to me with an angled hinge?

I say Hitter on this one.

My guess is that he is pulling from the top--look how the club shallows-out on the downswing. Then he may switch to a driving (hitting) action once the club reaches the bottom of the pully thru low point, thus a 4 barrel swit. Just a guess. One thing is certain he is a very strong and quick Dude, and compression leakage is not a concern.

thanks for the video
 

After watching the video, I wouldn't peg him as solely hitting. But, anyone would say that there are lots of things to like. From the front view they showed on the broadcast, I'd say again that I LOVE the lack of right wrist cock. Beautiful right forearm flying wedge. The right forearm is in a wonderful position for one starting from standard address. And, at impact, it's fantastic. Does anyone have the front view on video??

Horz. start, angle finish.

They showed a terrific down the line slow motion sequence Holmes split screeen with Daly. I wish I was quicker with the recorder remote.

Is it possible to purely hit with that much hip turn through impact??

Commentators mentioned that Holmes has never had a lesson and knows nothing about his golf swing. He just goes out and hits it.

Kostis remarked that J Daly has very similar impact hips and Daly with a much longer backswing reached impact at the same time as Holmes.

Would that translate to Holmes = a slow start down and heavy through impact? Or does it give us any other clues?

CBS SwingVision
 

my $0.02
 

hits w/horizontal hinging

Some Confusion here
 

Hitter or Swinger as referenced in 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 respectfully, are patterns of an uncompensated golf stroke, is it not?

A Switter (msp) is someone who mixes hitting and swinging components to create a pattern that requires compensation to correct, else you end up switting which results in inconsistencies, poor results, etc. That was my understanding.

Looking for a 'pure' hitter or swinger is probably something you will not find on the PGA or even LPGA tour. But that doesn't mean the personalized pattern isn't of a hitter or swinger.

From the little I have seen of John, I think he is primarily a hitter with the wedges and irons. His driver looks more like he is a swinger. Having two patterns is not unusual.

Pattern Development
 

True...and there more than just two uncompensated patterns.

Can there be 3, 10, 100, or more uncompensated patterns?

If not, why is there a Chapter 10 for variations within the 24 components?

I'm clarifying my thoughts on switting as well. When looking at a players motion and specifically each component, if something doesn't exactly line up with the recommended variations in 12-1-0 or 12-2-0, does that mean it's a compensation?

Just more food for thought. See 13-0 Non-Interchangeable Components

There can be incompatible components inside of a swinging pattern that are not specific to hitting and vise-versa.

Hummm...what tag line can we call those?

Swatting and Hitching?
Charlie Barkelys?
:D :D :D

Thanks,

Bagger

I personally think people are too hung up on is this Pro hitting or swinging. It is kind of like they are looking for some model to pattern themselves after.

As for 'pure' well I think Homer only reference this in 7-2. I think most are using it to define an 'Uncompensated' stroke.

If you have a shift in your swing, that being a defined component variation, is not the ideal component selection, and one could in fact say the extra movement is unnecessary and is a compensation.

Non-Interchangeable Components definitely would require compensations to overcome their effects be it in a hitting or swinging pattern.

He may have components of both, but it appears to me he's driving that right side. Just don't see anything that indicates the class (snead, els) swing. Doesn't appear to be a lot of pulling with him.

Then again I'm a relative novice...

Charles
 

I have to tag Charles with Hitching. He's definitely got a hitch in his get'along. :-& I'd like to give a lesson to that dude! What an opportunity to work some miracles.