Right forearm question
 

What is the role of the right arm in the standard left arm swing? Does it have a ‘passive pushing’ role at impact or perhaps a role in increasing effective mass? If not, what is the point of having a right arm for swinging at all (not talking Tomasello here by the way!)

It seems to me the right arm could be passive up to impact and then resist impact deceleration. When the ball is hit the club decelerates. If the right arm has kept up with the pulling left arm, then can’t it contribute to lessening impact deceleration? In effect the right forearm serving as a strut through which the weight of the body gets ‘behind’ the club to resist impact deceleration.

I’m not making myself very clear, but have really been feeling what an aligned right forearm feels like at impact recently (very fantastic!), however I wonder if the feeling I’m having – the support of the right forearm behind the shot which makes me feel like my pivot is pushing from my right side through my forearm through impact - is compatible with swinging – or whether I’m hitting/switting.

Chris

Last Paragraph
 

Chris,
I'd say that there is nothing wrong with your description above - certainly nothing that wouldn't allow it to be a swing. Sounds like a nice description of the golf swing.

In contrast- and to comment on your first couple of paragraphs in your original post- passive doesn't mean that you shouldn't feel the right arm, etc, etc.- in fact it's really a relative term - passive (reactive) versus active. Another way to look at it is if you thrust with the right arm when you're hitting- that's probably clear and you know the feeling. Then anything that is not thrusting would be passive and would not be radial acceleration i.e. is not hitting. Not a good post on my part in regards to the forum- too much vagueness too many holes to attack- but on a one on one conversation in person- within that context- and assuming that i've read your dilemma properly- then it's pretty close i.e. might be the right answer at the right time.

Thanks Mike,

That does make sense. I guess I'm just looking for validation of what I'm doing, but it feels so right!!!! The key for me has been to allow my right elbow to get out away from my body a bit through impact - you read a lot about the magic move of dropping the elbow to your side, and tucking your elbow in on the downswing, but I 'm finding much better support from my forearm if I let my elbow come out (and almost across) through impact.

The nice thing about this, apart from the feeling of getting right behind the shaft, is that the club is squaring up through my pivot and arms, so my hands feel very passive. I suppose they just don't need to flip. Alignment golf rules.

Chris

WARNING!!!!! NO ONE ON ONE's with MIKE O . . . . He'll slip you a roofie and chop your head off and drink Ovalteen from your skull cap.

No fear!
 

Everyone understands that Bucket hasn't left his house (and probably his sofa) in over 12 months. That's about the time when I threatned to add one more (bucket) head to my fridge!:hang:

Chris, just realize that none of the "feels" will stay around but the alignments will- so while it's thrilling to hit great, powerful shots- and the feelings that go along the way are usually mesmerizing, exciting- but those will fade. So stay focused on the alignments that your accomplishing - maintain those and let the feels change over time.

Heck ever since I put in that mini-fridge and cut the hole in my couch . . . what's the point of moving off it???

On a serious note . . . Chris what Mike O has just told you in a very short concise paragraph is more important to your game and changing your swing than you will ever know. Mike knows what he's talking about in a big way . . . listen up.

But . . .

He's still a freakin' PSYCHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Shortage
 

There is never enough "Ovalteen" in the world- especially when you really need it!!:crybaby: P.S. If it wasn't for the occasional swimsuit photo's that you post here- you would have been in the fridge long ago! I've got 2950 forum members PM'ing me daily in regards to why I have not finished the job! Oh! How's the sofa feeling? :happy3:

Sofa is good . . . until the spring gets you . . .

The right forearm is what lifts and drops the left arm (controlling secondary hinge) using the plane line as its guide as the pivot (power package transport)turns...

Sounds like one of Moe Normans swing thoughts - Body turns and arms swing up....

The right arm wants to straighten first on the take-away and then on the down stroke. But it is stuck holding the club with the right hand as part of the Flying wedge assembly. Just its luck being locked to the master accumulator #4- the left arm.

So what is left for it to do... stay on plane and apply extensor action as it striaghtens. Not so passive is it?

As a swinger, this point always seems to throw me; what differentiates this sensation from hitting? It does feel (to me, at least) like my right arm is driving; without this sensation, my right arm collapses.

cranking v. driving
 

The right arm is always driving to become straight. This might be what you feel.
The difference is that a Hitter drives an angle directly to the ball...
and a Swinger cranks his gyro- right shoulder- to "ignite” the blast off of the left arm, the fourth accumulator and whirls the clubhead. This arc of approach “freewheels” (a non tgm term) the Flying Wedges. Since the right half of the wedge extends to the right arm, you will feel it- it just can’t muscle and push the shaft near impact. Trust Newton and let the head whirl.

back to the egg.

When swinging think right side, not right arm. When I'm hitting I actually focus on straightening the right arm into impact. When I'm swining I just think of firing the right shoulder into impact while rotating the left arm. 6B Mike's explanation is right on. I never think of pulling, I'm pushing the right side, which in essence forces the left side to pull.

TBall,

This is a very useful and concise post. Thanks!


Chris

Oh man that don't work for me. I'm a left side guy. (but knowing what the right side does is pivitol...."mystery of the golf stroke fades away...")

I do know it works for some ppl tho.

the right arm is the true secret to playing great golf.once you understand and can see how it works the whole swing is simple.hitting or swinging you have to understand the right arm.mr.kelly said once you understand ,then this would be the magic of the right arm.bending and straighting the right arm cocks and uncocks the wrist.so if you do not feel the right arm staighten you are not uncocking the hands.
a very good drill to monitor this is to make slomotion swings so you can see delivery line prep,the roll and the uncocking as the right arm straightens.this is all i think of in my swing and when you feel the hands uncocking you will get some serious comression.monitor the hands watch what happens when the right arm begins to straighten.you have to do this drill as slow as you can.hope this helps everyone,i know it has helped me

I'm still incubating this one !I believe you must PULL if swinging?It is certainly what I am trying to do,as I tend to have a certain amount of right arm participation.The "non TGM"term is "confusing".Right shoulder gyro is also confusing-for a swinger-and ,also ,I believe,wrong.

Still at work (no book) but I believe Homer and for a fact- Lynn- speak of the right shoulder acting as a Gryo to crank up the flywheel (Right arm/right side). The right shoulder is the force that blasts the left arm off the chest. Accum #4, #2 then #3 is a pulling action of monitored by pp2.

Any thoughts folks?

Nice drill- I might be prejudiced about this one but Delivery Line Prep and Roll changed everything about the left arm for me. Not many golfers outside of LBG or TGM understand how the clubface 'rolls' into impact. If it didn't we would be striking the ball with the clubhead sole.

Pull, roll and catch rain- swinger's hand action on the downswing.

you can still be swinging and have right arm participation the right arm always strives to straighten.if it doesnt straight in the downstroke you would hit it dead right.if you do the drill i stated above and do it properly then you will see what i am talking about.watch th hogan home movie of mr hogan swinging in slow motion.this is what i am refering too.watching mr.hogan doing this helped me more trhan anything i have ever done.i feel like it is the best way to monitor your hands while still making a full swing.obviously it worked for the best ball striker of all time,so maybe a few of us could benefit also

John,

Can't thank you enough for contributing here. This is golden.

I've heard from a lot of players outside of the LBG community that you are one of the best ballstrikers on tour.

Lynn commented to me recently that he was very impressed with your ballstriking abilities. The drill you've put up is a MUST do.

Thank You - Can't wait to get those videos up.

Bagger

slo mo Hogan
 

Watching Hogan do the slo mo in real time is OUTSTANDING. You really get to see his Educated Hands perform magic. I watch it a lot and always discover something new.

The right forearm, the Flying Wedges, Delivery Line Prep and Roll to low point, loud impact - "these are a few of my favorte things."

I hear Coltrane in the back ground.

back to the egg for sleep. 6b

Do you agree that the feet start the crank of the gyro?

knees
 

Lower body for sure- Feet are anchors but do have right/left, big toe to heel points of movement but the foundation of the 'machine' is the knees and hips- learn to move from here and the hands will love it.


Check out Lynn's first clip on this site:
http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/v...se_images&g=13

Lynn explains and shows both the Swinging gyro flywheel and the Hitter's backboard to push off.

A CLASSIC. Save it and watch it til it is burned on your brain- LOL

Went back and watched the Hogan slow mo clip again after John's post. What really struck me was how Hogan seemed (at least when demoing in slow motion) to get the hips to a slightly open position very early in the downswing and then just stop them there. The club seems to come from well above parallel with seemingly stationary hips.

Now I can relate this to momentum tranfer, but you always hear 'keep the pivot moving'', 'maintain pivot lag' and so on. For example Tomasello says once the hands get below shoulder height the left hip must keep moving - this seems almost diametrically opposed to Hogan's demo.

Can anyone clear the fog here?

Chris

Hogan had problems hooking the ball...no wonder.

DG

I wish I had Hogan's ballstriking problems! He wasn't exactly a hack!!!

Using the Hips
 

Hogan uses an "Instant Acceleration of the Hips" at Start Down (10-19-C) to power the Club via Centrifugal Force. Like you said, Pivot Lag is never Released (2-M-1). In other words, the Hips are always leading the shoulders during the Downstroke. Pivot Components (feet, knees, hips, shoulders) slow down from the ground up, but it never gets over taken (e.g. the Shoulders never overtake the Hips). By muscularly trying to spin the Hips you will disrupt the Momentum Transfer needed to induce the right amount of Throw Out Action, which will also affect your Rhythm (and therefore Hinge Action too). With all the Momentum transferred to the Club, this pulls your arms and body into the Finish position.

So the hips can be leading even if they have stopped?

guys you have it all wrong thinking of your hips.monitor the hands from the top straight line delivery and the pivot will take care of itself.think of nothing but the hands and the bvody will do what it has too.you are going to have to trust me on this one.i do not even give pivot a single thought.trace that staight line and then deliver it on a staight line.that is why it is called a hand controlled pivot.monitor the hands nothing else.if you are tracing straight lines then the pvot will be in the correct sequence and position.it really is that simple.

I would like to call that 'hit with the second loop'.
:)

The Hips don't stop until The Finish. They just slow down after Start Down (but still lead the Shoulders -- "Pivot Lag").

Indeed, the Hands are responsible for its Delivery Path and Plane Line Tracing (along with Right Forearm). However, it's still a Pivot Stroke Delivery (6-K-0) using the Hands Controlled Pivot (5-0 and 6-G-0).

Well.... I don't see the loop. It rolls on a straight Plane Line.

But if it works.... :)

John R,
Do you feel like your eyes and head stay facing the ball on the RFT? or does your head turn slightly to the right though stationary?

What a breath of fresh air from a man who has "been there and done that".

John, thanks a bunch.

///////////////////////
:wink:

right forearm at address and grip
 

Do I need to change my right hand grip to a palm grip versus a finger grip to have the right forearm inline with the shaft at address?

Dave

The Right Hand Fingers
 

Absolutely not, Dave. The Right Hand Grip is a finger Grip -- as opposed to a ham-fisted palm Grip -- and the cup of the Hand (the palm) covers the Left Hand thumb. The Grip pressure should be firm with each of the encircling fingers, except with the right forefinger (with its #3 Pressure Point), which should be somewhat lighter (to keep it sensitive to the Downstroke Lag Pressure).

I learn something everytime I read one of your posts Lynn. All this time I have been trying to ensure I apply pressure with the #3 pressure point and keep the same degree of firmness there as with pressure points one and two. :BangHead: