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Plane
Let us discuss the possible reasons for getting the CLUB OFF-PLANE on the BACKSWING and DOWNSWING, and the best ways to STAY ON-PLANE. I'll start with a couple, then others chime in.
Off-Plane 1. Right Forearm off-plane at Address. I realize that many(most) do set up with the forearm off-plane, but this is one possibility. 2. Changing the BENT RIGHT WRIST angle. This should not change at all throughout the Stroke, except briefly in the front part, between Follow-Through and Finish, when the arms MIRROR the BACKSTROKE conditions. |
Hands moving away from the body as first move of takeaway, rather than back, up, and in. Usually moves clubhead well inside, but 'over' plane because of above plane hand motion. Clubhead does not stay 'outside' the hands until hip high.
In short, not tracing a straight plane line. Most likely the result of improper grip or setup position, and I would agree that the right forearm is one of the big ones. |
Lack of concern for what the hands do...(Pivot Controlled Hands)...
Certain postures and your balance at address can affect plane...(especially with a STT) Trying to compensate for a certain shot pattern....or steering. Clubface control....most common would be too open. (for slicers) i.e. underplane/over-swivel Faulty backswing pivot....bad swaying or reverse pivoting... |
The #1 off plane reason i find for off plane backswings is over rotated lead forearms.
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Eac Selected Plane angle has different range of motions, styles of motion, sequence of motion, & speed of motion..different wrist alignments etc....This could get deep!!!!
Instead of opening up a can of worms let's select a particular plane angle and discuss what movements can take it off plane versus on plane... I gotta hand it to you lagster ..you are consistent at one thing.... asking questions that have endless possiblitlites...especially when you already know the answers in advance::eyes: Unless Fixed in advance or established in advance...Hand Paths and Wrist Alignments are major players here as well as Zone #2 and Zone One spacing and sequencing....  |
OK Annikan,
What are the top 5 reasons one would get underneath the TSP on the downswing? |
one thing that is probably the most misunderstud term is the back,up,and in. most dont realize when read, herd or however the information comes to them exactly how this is applied. futhermore the second reason in my book has to be under or over rotation of the forearms. for me to imitate the image of tiger puts the club way under plane and makes for some unreliable compensations as to where for most if the student can get the club moving up more similar to the image of Grant Wait and even Bobby Jones is more reliable and easier to control in my opinion.
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Pivot components rotation speeds are too slow.. Too much Shoulder Lag Delivery Path of the Hands moving independently and vertically downward to the Elbow Plane or even more devestating below it The right wrist moving from level to uncocked during the release interval Perverted axis tilt from the head & neck moving to much up and back and the upper spine too much lateral bending too soon.... The left arm falling down from the hinge assembly permitting the right arm to straighten too much too soon... An increase in the horizontal motion of the right wrist Bending back too much and/or the left wrist Arching beyond Flat.... The Left Arm being too far away from the chest at the End or Top then increasing too much by moving Back and Down the chest causing an unitential reverse loop plane shift... or worse yet an unintentional plane shift out to the right..... Getting the right elbow too far under the left arm (perverted pitch)during release causing the clubhead to fall back and down below plane... Shifting the Plane Line to the Right at the Top or End or Start Donw or Downstroke or during release...subconsciously Take your pick...I'm sure there are more...  |
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"the best ways to STAY ON-PLANE": Spin around an axis. |
Good
A lot of good input and information here!!
OK... let's get more specific. Mr. Hoch, for example, in the pictures posted by Annikan, has the butt of his club pointing well inside the baseline. This would be Off-plane according to many. He, however, is an excellent ball striker. Is this an example of a correct variation, for someone on his very STEEP Backswing Plane? |
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You have to watch what the hands/pressure points do. The plane is defined by the hands (pressure points) and the sweet spot - not the shaft :) - and unless you have zeroed out #3 - far better to just watch the path of the hands for 'the' plane. |
Plane
How do you think the PIVOT COMPONENTS(HIP TURN, KNEES, SHOULDER TURN, etc.) affect the BACKSWING PLANE?
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Thee range of motion, speed, style and sequencing greatly affect plane angle...especially for a "Pivot-Controlled Procedure"...However a true "Hand Controllled procedure the Pivot Components are a reponse to the intentions of the Hands and the Eyes...
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I am really not clear on what we are looking for in these photos and if it is the samenesses or the differences that are significant. The biggest question being where the sweet spot should be and the adequacy of the camera angle. Hoch sure looks different in this set, giving Tiger some slack and not knowing where BC's ball is. I would want to see Hoch at the top. I tend to agree that one needs to watch the hands, but to see if one is on plane or shifting and not to define the plane. HK did not define a plane angle with the lag pressure point. He did say that both the sweet spot plane and the shaft plane pass through the lag pressure point. OTOH, the path the hands take in both directions does seem to be significant in the stroke concepts of some if not many tour players. DRW |
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