new GolfWorld- The Golfing Machine
 

Boo is on the cover of the new GolfWorld. I don’t subscribe to the magazine but one with my name on it was in my mailbox this afternoon. Good Karma because there is a story on Plummer and Bennett.
Loren Rubenstein wrote the piece called Center of Attention. On the cover its called- “No weight shift? The PGA Tour’s hottest new swing theory.”
Please…so a centered head is a no weight shift? I guess that is what it feels like when you don’t sway the head or load over the right knee, then rock over to the left leg.
A centered head with a spine adjusting with the pivot does have a weight shift. It just ain’t a sway.

The article talks about the Tour players that Mike and Andy teach this radical centered head stuff to, how Weir took Plummer’s copy of The Golfing Machine to Thailand last month. And how Andy and Mike meet “after they had become familiar with Homer Kelley’s fascinating cult book The Golfing Machine.”

It’s a nice article but Loren- stay away from instruction.

He has a terribly convoluted writing style!

$%#*&$$!
 

Okay, first of all, Mr. Rubenstein's classification of the Yellow Book's status as being a "cult" book gets Golfworld a letter to the editor from me, and I urge all members of this forum to do the same. I'm betting that if Lynn writes one, it will be the most eloquent and most likely to be published.
Secondly, I found this paragraph from the article absolutely fascinating-

"That the Plummer-Bennett way may not be for everyone is evidenced by Jason Gore's recent return to his longtime teacher, Mike Miller, after a period with the duo. "I was trying to do something that I'm not physically able to do," says Gore, a barrel-chested man with short arms. Says instructor Jim Suttie: "Certain people are not built to do that. If you have a flexibility issue, you can't do that [swing as Plummer and Bennett advocate]."

Sounds to me(from my limited memory of Jason's swing) that they were trying to teach a hitter how to swing...

-cult-
People really fear the Unknown..

Letters To the Editor
 

Thanks, Blackjack. I appreciate the boost and the inspiration. I will read the article and write if I think I can make a difference.

I think he is a swinger. I think one problem is that Gore's physique makes it difficult to get the arms to swing low and inside, like Bennett and Plummer prefer. Trust me, it's a lot easier to have low arms at the top when you don't have some type of upper body bulk getting in the way.

Relax- I know Lorne from my days covering sports. He is outside looking in writing this article.

The word CULT = "great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book)." I think that fits fine.
And his said it was fascinating and a Landmark book. Cool.

And if Jack says there is no Laterial shift- I don't think he means the hips don't bump- just that the center doesn't move off the ball. Goes to show what a constant Language does for teaching. And yes, Leadbetter seems like a kid left off a team in the playground because some new kids move into the neighborhood.

Gore. I'm surprised that Plummer and Bennett couldn’t develop a stroke for this guy.
Just goes the show how fortunate we all are to be able to sit alongside Yoda in the Swamp.

I have no problem with "cult book".....

Kinda like "cult movie".....

So long as we aren't "deranged cultISITS." ;)

I don't think that was really the problem. It was more of a time issue. They worked with him during the Nissan and mabey spent less than a few days with him after. Its hard trying to work with a large camp of guys. I know they have cut off how many the will work with now.

these guys are more morad than gm.if you dont believe me look at the players they work with and you will see no 2-f right forearm. enough said

Well I would say sure, what about Grant's swing? Mabey take a look of his current pattern. but they are closer to TGM than anyone on a large scale, so let that be. Thats good for Homer.

Working With Grant Waite
 

I am at the Nationwide's Henrico County Open in Richmond, Virginia, and worked about an hour and a half today with Grant. Some major light bulbs went off, and he was clearly excited about tying a lot of loose ends together. This improved understanding led to a distinctly superior execution and compression. As he told John Riegger, who came up toward the end of our session, "No one has ever explained these things I am trying to do so simply." :grin:

I took some before and after photos, but don't have my 'download' equipment with me. I'll post them when I get back. :)

Segue
 

John and Dana,

Sorry but I had to edit your posts to remove a bogus link that got embedded in the post. We have having trouble with spambots (not the Austin Powers kind) and they are causing some forum problems.

More, more!!!

Very cool!

Matt- didn't you caddie for Waite at one time?

very cool. Can't wait to see

I think we are witnessing the end of the beginning . . . I imagine a certain someone up yonder is smiling down.

Won't be too long before we can all say . . . we were here when it all started.

Lynn/John - Looking forward to seeing you there tomorrow morning.... I'll be at the range checking out the ever growing 'Team LBG' :) - EdZ

Yes, Milwaukee in July 2004...Grant was working on the stuff described in the article you posted, and we played a practice round with Dean Wilson who was just getting into all this.

I would like to see Lynn if the stuff you guys worked on was giving him a bit more power. His stats are not showing it as of now, however I have not seen him swing for about four years now. His former teacher did teach a little bit different pattern than the one the guys are know for.
I know mine is too. Most of my players start off as hitters.
Good to see TGM getting such nice coverage.

Components
 

What would be the 12-17 component variations from the Plummer-Bennett article(s)?

Just got my Golf Digest with the Plummer Bennett stuff in it. First of all FANTASTIC to see that the give credit to The Golfing Machine. Second observation is that if you take the swing that David "Master of Chapter 10" Orr has posted . . . looks just like what they have going on in the comparison of "Stack & Tilt" vs. Conventional.

I think there is definitely something to the way they advise using the ground. Also, the whole centered head controlling low point . . . 1-L #1 . . . Holla fo' a dollah or even a couple of million $$$.

They need to be on this site . . . would love to have a Machine discussion with these guys. This dealie is very much pivot based. I would like to hear them comment on pressure points and release motions. Love the business model too . . . Starski and Hutch'n it.

You could line up a bunch of guys.. Jodie Mudd, Mike Woodson, Denver Haddix and about half the top amateurs in the state of Kentucky and they would all look the same. Mac did a good job. Quick story.... Andy P called Mac one night and had a list of 11 swing questions he wanted to go over with him. Three hours later and he was only through 3 questions. :)

just fyi,i dont think these guys are teaching the way homer wanted it taught.yes their info is in the book but it is not the most acceptable way.if you dont believe me then why do they not teach putting the right forearm on plane at address?too many extra moves in their model to be a truly great ball striker.a hand controlled pivot is far superior.i have tried it all in 25 years and nobody i mean nobody understands mr.kellys teachings better than lynn blake,rob noel,ted fort,jeff hull and a selective few.sorry to step on anyones toes but the truth will come to the forefront sooner than later.

I hastened here somewhat embarassed by a protracted absense, but a nagging panic ruled the evening after I picked up my Golf Digest.

For the the short version (for me), I am enthused that Homer Kelley's teachings are receiving a richly deserved dose of notoriety. Yet, what I think I saw were some constructs which are going to be disruptive for the average golfer. Consistently for me, any deviation from proper care in building and aligning the power package increases risk of fouling the Hinge or Plane.

I have it in the back of mind that handing the average Golf Digest reader a pivot based swing, with an active #4 Accumulator, and an instruction to "stand up" is a 3 ingredient recipe for them to come off of a solid commitment to the Line. It takes the cognitive focus out of the educated hands.

I can see there is much positive in their "swing". I do look forward to hearing the LBG masters' analysis.

PS.... The denotation of "cult' died a long time ago. The resonance of its connotation remains... likened to midnight showings of "Pink Flamingos" and people who worship robins' nests. :)

AGREED!!!! I think we're headin' down the sooner part of the road too!

Gettin' Crowded
 

Bucket,

They are on this site. Just not posting. :)

Well there you go! I never did have much luck with the silent type . . . the Moooing type was more my speed.

Everybody lurks here. Listen to the mainstream talk these days. They may not be reading Homer's Book but they sure read Blake. And told a friend, who told a friend.

That would be cuzin around here.

For those that don't get Golf Digest and want to see the article: http://www.golfdigest.com/stackandtilt. This link worked last I checked. In the article they advocate for a centered and stationary head until after impact because it makes it easier to have a low point in front of the ball and gives the player one less variable in their swing. I have no problem with this, but what I do not understand is under this philosophy of the less variables the better--why would you want someone to straighten their posture when coming into impact? To me, this is an extra variable that is necessary because the right fore-arm is not set on-plane. Therefore, the player needs to straighten up to avoid hitting several inches behind the ball.

Please correct me if I am misrepresenting the swing.

Matt

The Current Hype.. whats it about?
 

My personal 2 cents about this swing..

As we all know feel is execution, and the simplicity of feel is the simplicity of execution. As 5-0 is also explaining similar concept in TGM.

I think , MAC design this swing to simplify the feel aspect. the rotated shoulder turn steep by moving the hip to be ON PLANE on the top, keep arm going back without lifting in a specific angle to arrive at elbow plane-Automatically. Visually your perception of the ball position stays the same( which is great). Release the pelvis and the ball goes off. Thus once thus it is learn properly.. its basically pretty much a low maintenance swing.. bio mechanically sound swing, as we probably spend less time to practice tracing the forearm all the time, how much to fan, how much to lift.look look look..

Why is that important? my guess, is not merely ball striking.. but more importantly SHOT MAKING. We want to play golf , reproduce Reliability and sound mechanic under pressure( by feel), produce the trajectories we want. We want to score and really PLAY golf.

But , i haven't really learn the swing, only know roughly how it works .so my synopsis is pretty much worthless.. nobody is willing to impart anything further than what we see here :p so. will be great someone write more 10 position or something.. but this is what i think all this "Hype" about One Plane swing.. MORAD is really about.

Cheers !

matt you are absolutely correct.you can still stay centered and transfer weight to the right.imagine a baseball player trying to hit a 90 mph fastball with a his weight on his left foot.not going to have much power in his swing is he.you guys need to just keep working on a hand controlled pivot and forget the rest.listen to the true tgm guys and we all know who they are

Centered Head And the Weight Shift
 

Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett advocate a centered Head. For those who follow Homer Kelley and his recommended Stationary Head, that is is a good thing (1-L-#1/#2, 2-0, 2-G [7th edition] and the Head-marked photos in 9-1 and 9-2). Unfortunately (in my opinion), in their pursuit of Centered Arc and a spine that stays vertical ("over the ball"), they apparently abandon the Backstroke Weight shift that has for centuries been the mainstay of conventional Pivot instruction (7-12 and 10-12-A).

Also, their recommended target-wise tilt of the upper body (Plummer, page 130) and steep Backstroke Left Shoulder Turn (it "turns down, pointing almost toward the Ball") ignores the fact that the Inclined Plane is inclined. Remember, it is a 'through the waist' Plane of Rotation, and in order for the Right Shoulder to be On Plane at the Top, the Right Shoulder Backstroke Turn will ideally move as directly, i.e., Flat , toward the Plane as possible. Except with the shortest Clubs -- and even then it is either only relative or restricted to the low-power Minor Basic Strokes -- a steep shoulder Turn is not compatible with this geometric objective.

The good news is that you can have the Head Pivot Center (with its Centered Arc) and the Weight Shift (with its additional Power). For proof, check out frames 3 & 4 of the V.J. Singh Swing Sequence in the same Golf Digest edition (May 2007). Note that his Hips and Shoulder Turns are "stacked" and that there is no 'pie,' i.e., an angle of the back from the vertical. Alternatively, click on this on-line view of V.J.'s swing:

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...ijaysingh.html

In The Golfing Machine, Homer Kelley coined the term Hula Hula Flexibility to describe this ability to Shift the Weight while maintaining a Centered, Stationary Head (7-14).

Baddeley's Swing
 

Aside from GD not publishing a complete down the line swing. Is there anything you don't like about how Badd's club moves. Not how his body looks but what the club does?

The Hula Hula is a concept that has eluded many swing gurus. Many see two legs that need to be loading and unloaded. Sway right, sway left- Ballard for example.

Hula Hula is not a mere Hip Slide as some think. It is the independent hip action from the shoulders under a centered head. The heart of the pivot.

Homer's Greatest Hits are many.

I would not ever have a new student not have the right grip. Mabey it will come out soon. A grip and how it supports write up would be cool. I belive alot of golfer would benifit from that.

A visual demo of the Hula Hula concept would make for great video. I cannot connect the dots between keeping a stationary head & a vertical spine position and the role of the hips.

A Compensated Stroke Model
 

Assuming the spine is anchored at the top, e.g., with a Stationary Head, then it will remain vertical only if there is Zero Hip/Weight Shift. Otherwise, the lower spine moves (tilts) in the direction of the Shift.

Attempting to produce such a tilt -- in either direction -- without a Hip/Weight Shift can only produce a Sway (4th Snare / 3-F-7-D) and, if the Waist Bend or Knee Bend -- Left or Right or both -- is exaggerated, potentially a Bob (3rd Snare / 3-F-7-C). With the proper Clubhead Orbit thus disrupted, there must be a compensation, ideally one that returns the Head to its original position.

It is this 'Sway/Bob and Compensate' action that forms the basis of the Plummer-Bennett model as defined and demonstrated in Golf Digest, June 2007, The New Tour Swing. http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...tacktilt8.html

As discussed and illustrated on page 130, the head and left shoulder tilt down toward the ball in the backstroke, the "spine tilts toward the target" and the left foot is loaded. [There is no mention of just where this move puts the all-important right shoulder.] Then, in the downstroke, the player "launches off the left foot" in a "standing stretch" to produce a "springing action through the ball." The downstroke image used is one of crushing a soda can under the left foot to thrust the hips upward through impact (page 123).

So, according to the Golf Digest article, the Plummer-Bennett dictum is to "tilt to your left on the backswing and stand up through impact" (page 130). Well, having tilted to the left, I agree that it is important that the player stand up through impact. But, these extreme moves are totally unnecessary if the player simply executes a correct Pivot (7-12 and 10-12-A) with its centered Head, Free Turn with Weight Shifts and On Plane Right Shoulder (10-13-D).

Interestingly, I do not see these extremes in the unposed Aaron Baddeley Driver Stroke Sequence on the title page. Also, his perfectly-centered address position on page 120 (compare to Bennett's address in the 'stack and tilt setup'). Therefore, it is always possible that the article's demonstrations and descriptions are exaggerations intended as a 'means to an end' and not the intended end itself. For example, Bennett's obviously forward-of-middle head position at address, the top and in the start down. Also, Plummer's 'tilt and stretch' Master Moves. Then again, if that were the case, the "New Tour Swing" would not be so "radical" after all. :think:

If teachers want to teach the 'Tilt left, load-up the left foot and push off' model, that's fine by me. And if players want to use it, that's cool, too. However, readers should be advised that it does not reflect the ideal of an Uncompensated Stroke as defined in The Golfing Machine, and any representation to the contrary is inaccurate.