Thanks for the call Butch
 

I preface this by saying i dont know what really happened.

what i do know is that Butch Harmon......released himself from teaching John daly.

that is perfectly acceptable.........except for the way it was done.....

IN THE MEDIA..........I dont know if Butch tried to call JD or not......i'll

just say he should have tried.......

now.......i quote Butch Harmon............."John has to make golf the most important thing in his life".....RIGHT BUTCH............

Tell Tiger he has to make golf more important then his new baby...

Tell Phil,,,,,,that if you were his swing coach in 1999 during the U.s open.......and he had the lead by 1.......going to 18.........if he got a message from his wife going into labor and delivery......stay and finish the tournament.....RIGHT BUTCH

THEY are both GREAT GREAT GOLFERS........BUT FIRST THEY ARE HUSBANDS AND DADS

Butch if golf is the number one priority in your life......i sincerely hope.....you have the opportunity........TIGER AND PHIL HAVE HAD.....AND FIND.."REAL HAPPINESs"

YOUR a great swing coach, and i for one hope JD......gets it together.......but i really would have hoped you stayed with him.....not as a coach, but as a friend.......

hjack

I'm not a big fan of either of these guys and I see your point, but Butch was referencing golf vs. drinking, not golf vs. family. Maybe "the most" was a less than ideal choice of words, but I think he was trying to help JD. The rest of the story and Butch's quotes are here: http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/...721480,00.html

point taken
 

IM sure you also have a point......

words are words...............wanting it to be the most important thing in his life

your right......MOST was a bad choice of words


by the way......do you know why Tiger fired Butch????

hj

I wouldn't marry someone that would want me to leave the US Open I am leading on the 72nd hole. Thankfully I found someone that understands everything can have its priority at the right time.

John suffers from an ailment that infiltrates and plagues every niche in our society. He has both alcohol and gambling dependencies which cause his behavioral problems and which his will power cannot overcome. Teachers, Wives, Friends and associates and Fans and Press have hung in as long as they could. Like any family, they probably made herculean efforts and have been as patient and hopeful as saints until his destructiveness became theirs.

Only John can help himself. It is a sad fact that not many in his situation can overcome their dependencies soon enough to salvage careers and friendships. Only a few are lucky to beat the problem enough to build a modest life for themselves and maintain friendships with people around them. But they live with the tendencies their whole lives. For those that can overcome, things look normal from only our perspective.

John made all of this a public issue with his book. I don't think that you can point the finger at Butch. We know what's coming and if we don't play naive, we know he's going to get worse before he gets better. :(

I think that most people are like you mrodock. Things have really changed over the years. I was born in 1956. My mother phoned my father at work that she was about to deliver. He rushed home, drove her to the hospital. He met the doctor at the front door while my Mother walked into delivery. My father and the Doctor (a Friend of his) had a cigarette together at the car. When they finished, my Father drove back to work and the Doctor Promised to call him and let him know if it was a boy or girl. :laughing9 And look how normal I am. :eyes:

That is an awesome story, appreciate you sharing!

Daly deserves nothing. He has been given more chances than anyone. Who ever said he was the biggest con artist in the game was right.

I don't pity him at all. Maybe now his exemptions will run out and we will be spared this drama.

One of the best pivots ever though....it was (is) so natural and pure.

Oh, and I'm really sick of the "he is an everyman" theme. He ain't me. I am not putting myself on a pedestal, because I have made mistakes and will continue to do so. However, I do my best to learn from them

The Daly Double
 

First Butch and then he blows off Arnie's Pro-Am after receiving a sponsors exemption. Regardless of how you look at it, it is a sad story.

Yeah, that "everyman" thing always got to me. No wonder so many people think Americans are idiots if we are willing to claim him as our folk hero.

John Daly TGC Interview
 

His side of the stories:

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.a...0&select2=8832

"Everyman"
 

I think the "everyman thing" has to be kept in context. I can't quote figures, but I have to believe a majority of PGA professionals fall into the "silver-spoon" category and Daly is for sure a departure from that. Golf has always been considered a bit of an elitist sport and JD's background is anything but, so in that respect I think he endeared himself to many.

But.... it is hard to argue that his act isn't getting old. I'm a pretty patient guy and when I heard the news about his antics last week and then missing his Tuesday tee time I just had to shake my head.

I'll relay one story told to me by a friend of mine (a local club pro who managed to qualify for the PGA when it was held in Kohler, WI a few years ago). He has a daughter with a physical condition that required some expensive surgeries at a very young age and he happened to get paired with Daly in the Monday practice round. My friend had to get back that night for a Tuesday charity event for his daughter (and then fly back Wednesday). They talked about stuff during the round (JD's support of Make-A-Wish, my friend's daugher, etc) and JD told him to come by the "bus" and he'd give him a few things for the silent auction. Well... they're coming up the 18th, and my friend says that JD is up by the green waiting for him. He reaches into his pocket and pulls out about $3k in cash, gives it to my friend and says "this is for your daughter". That story made TGC that night, not at JD's request. My friend played the first 2 rounds with people literally trying to hand him cash on almost every hole. "Kinda tough to play good golf with people handing you money and you're trying not to cry". In his words.... "John Daly will always be #1 in my book".

I've always cut JD some slack since I heard that story. Man I wish he could turn it around.

CG

My god people, leave John alone. He was late- the pga has a bug up their ass about these pro -ams. I bet John could have met his foursome on the third hole if the pga gods allowed it but no they say go home and btw the guys that replace you are gone too because they can't predict the future. John is one of the nicest guys on tour because he is nice to the fans. You can met John Daley, talk to him, cheer for him after he swings. Go meet Ernie or Phil, heck you can't even watch Tiger warm up. And John didn't need Butch - who really does? Soon Butch will have to teach golf to tourists.

And NEVER think Golf isn't the most important thing in the life of Tiger or Phil- come on. It can be slid over for a moment but golf will never stop being who they are. That would be unfair to the family. Look at Michael Jordan ( is that his name?) after basketball.

People don't know the truth about JD. His dad was an engineer and moved all over the country working on power plants. Everywhere he went he was a member of a country club and played golf. JD capitalized on the Arkansas redneck thing because that is the last place his dad moved.

JD grew up no different than any other PGA Tour player (a lot of them, anyway). So in essence, Daly grew up the "rule" not the "exception" Country Club member, silver spoon directly in mouth.

You want someone who wasn't that way...feast your eyes on Boo or any of those Panhandle guys.

Your right 6B, the Tour does have a bug up their ass about the pro-ams..Because those people are the ones that give the money so that there even is a tour. It's pretty important and just like any other business.

Imagine if you blew off a client meeting in the morning because you were told wrong by someone who you shouldn't have been talking with about the issue anyway.....I would guess your boss would not like it...and you would not have that client anymore...You may not get fired, but I would bet there would be a post-it in your personnel file.

One more thing. I am sick of all these Tour players and all they can talk about is "getting away from the game" every damn one of them acts as if they hate the game during interviews. JD included. If they hate it so much, don't play, do something else, I am sure everyone of them has made a ton of contacts playing the tour and could do pretty much anything they wanted.

I agree glcoach. They Play Golf for a Living and they want to have a Pitty Party.

One opinion
 

No excuse missing a commitment. I did not read the he said--she said. No interest.

But they let Phil play in Dallas last year when he had trouble with weather when traveling from a corporate outing and missed the pro-am. They said it was up to the sponsor. Phil "happened" to be the highest ranked player in a very weak field. Many players felt they, personally, would not have been given the same break. I was on the range Wednesday when the tour was trying to explain it to the field. Lot of skeptics.

Linking pro-am play to ability to play in the tourney proper is a new rule. It has only been in effect a few years. The penalty used to be not getting points toward one of about four retirement programs. Some players used to let the tour know ahead of time that they were not going to play because of injury or distaste for pro-ams. Pro-ams fund the charity, not the purse. Still worthwhile, but John gives away a fair amount of time and money.

The shift is all about branding, corporate packaging, value to sponsors, big business. On one hand, bigger purses are great. Everyone likes money. Everything comes at a price. Marry for money, and you will earn it. Finchem is trying to maximize the money side, often at the expense of the quality of the experience. The tour sold out TPC Woodlands (one exciting course) for 250 grand to move to a new development, ask Hal Sutton. Power is sexy, so power is emphasized.

As far as getting away from the game. Without doing it day to day, it is hard to understand the energy it takes. The other 143 guys that are your buddies and fellow competitors are trying as hard as they can to eat the food off your table. Old story about a player telling about a bad shot, round, etc: Half don't care, half wish it were worse for you.

Notice you don't hear Tiger or Nicklaus complain about wanting to go home? They play (ed) 20 or fewer times a year. They get their rest, so they can play their best. Some guys feel like they need to play more often to compete. A player complaining about fatigue or showing signs of it is one who needs to manage his schedule better. Often those guys are so tired by Sunday that they don't have the reserve strength to meet the demands of Sunday pressure (sadly they often think they need to work harder). They end up dropping down the leaderboard, making a smaller check, and feeling like they need to play more to make their money. Marthoners have found they perform better by training smarter and tapering down the pre-race training. It is a delicate balance between doing everything you can to be ready and having enough energy to compete. Sometimes you just have to suck it up.

No secret that Tiger learned a lot for the Nicklaus model. Only he stepped it up with a rigorous fitness schedule. It is not so much to hit it longer. More to prevent injury and to have the energy to drag the field every week he plays.

Most players have no idea what they would do if they did not play golf.

Great post
 

Awesome post as usual. :salut: :salut:

It is so refreshing to get the scoop from someone inside the ropes, and who communicates so well. I still think you ought to write a book.

UPP in snowy but melting Ohio

Thanks
 

Thanks for taking us inside the ropes. I miss the Woodlands. 16, 17 & 18 are a great finishing trio...a lot of puckering gone on those holes! Some those greens are the shallowest I have ever seen.

I think it goes beyond the missed pro-am or the break with Harmon. Daly has had more than his share of second chances. His poor play is directly the result of his not focusing on his golf game, which is related to his lifestyle choices,excess drinking. In addition he probably withdraws from more tournaments than anybody on record, often for less than valid reasons.
While there is no denying his appeal, his dysfunction is slowly destroying his appeal. He needs to get his act together, or sponsor exemptions will be a thing of the past.

Two TOURs -- Two Schedules
 

Great post, henny, as usual!

And your point about scheduling is well taken: A wise woodsman takes time to sharpen his axe.

However, for our readers' perspective, we're talking about two classes of TOUR players here (at a minimum). In the first class are the guys who are eligible for all the 'big money' events (say, $6 million up), i.e., the four majors, the World Golf Championship events and the invitationals (Mercedes, Arnold Palmer, etc.). Not to mention the FedEx Cup Series.

In the second class is everybody else. While the TOUR 'cream' is playing the limited field events for the big money, e.g., WGC at $8.0 million purse, 70-80 players, 'no cut' and last place money of $35,500, the second tier must make their money playing the 'opposite events', e.g., the Reno-Tahoes, John Deeres and Mayakobas ($3.5 million purse, 144-156 players, full cut, and pocket change for last place). For those still scrambling at season's end (after The TOUR Championship), it's off to the low-budget Fall Series (seven events).

And remember, unless and until these journeymen secure their 'cards' for the next year by finishing in the Top 125, there is no next year! In the pressure-cooked Land of the Meateaters, nobody knows it more than the meateaters themselves. So, while 20 tournaments might be an ideal -- I love Chi Chi's great line about Jack Nicklaus: "He became a legend in his spare time!" -- such a limited schedule is simply not practical for golf's rank-and-file.

Until that elusive 'next year's' card is in the bag, it's hard to quarrel with those who cannot rest --- psychologically or physically -- until it is. For most, that requires scratching it out in 30 or more events.

Haven't you been late to something important in life? A missed exit, an alarm that didn't go off because of a power surge in the middle of the night, a wrong turn? Are all of you so perfect? Life is more about controling adversity then thumping one's chest about perfection. The game of golf is just that. Some of theses pro- Am disqualifications happen after just a few minutes late. I understand sponserships but I bet Daley's guys would have rather played 15 holes with him, then NONE. And tossing the other two guys was weak.

had the pleasure
 

of watching DAVE HILL hit golf balls here in SARASOTA......he was on a few Ryder Cups.......and in 1969 i believe it was 69.......he won the Vardon trophy........with a 70.34 scoring average........what a great swing..............and what a nice guy.........suffering with a bad back.....

anyway......the year he won.....Nicklaus had an average of 68.? , not sure exactly.........but you had to have 88 rounds of golf.......to be eligible......so yes every moment does count........

one other note................ 2008 Ryder captain....PAUL AZINGER

WAS A STUDENT AT SARASOTA HIGH SCHOOL.......when i was teaching there......anyway...thought it might be interesting to share....

stay well all

hjack

I have made mistakes and will continue to do so. However, I attempt to learn from them, unlike our esteemed Mr. Daly.

There must be an echo 'cause I swear I said the above in an earlier post. So to answer your question for the second time. No I do not think I am perfect. Yes I have made errors of judgement. BTW, I am really sick of this "well I guess you think your perfect" type of argument when it comes to Daly....at least think of something more original to denigrate his detractors and defend him with...JMO :)

Anyway I will do a favor and list the scenario that caused our protagonist to miss his pro-am tee time..... If you still think it's defensible......well, I just don't see how you can.

Despite the pro-am tee sheet being posted in the locker room and posted on a players only website that contained the correct information and multiple PGA TOUR officials on hand to answer any and all questions......

Daly asked a volunteer...someone who may or may not know....and, here is the kicker, he blindly just trusted what she had to say. Fault is all his. Case closed. At least ask someone who may have a clue. Or do yourself a favor and dial up the website on your Blackberry....can't be that hard.

I agree that he has repeatedly made some mistakes but "learning from" and "execution" or "implementation" of the lessons is the devilized details we all struggle with. Daley is immature- his picture is next to the word in Websters but he is Gray and a Black and white world of the pga. I'd rather fine him (heavy) and send him out on the course, which I think those guys would rather see happen then have nothing.

In my opinion, perhaps the most grievous mistake of the hard-nosed PGA Pro-Am policy involved Bob Tway and the 2006 BellSouth Golf Classic.

Bob’s son, Kevin, had won the U.S. Junior Amateur the previous summer, defeating 16-year-old Bradley Johnson 5-and-3 in the 36-hole final. http://www.usjunioram.org/2005/news/Final.html

Eight months later, on March 25, Brad was killed in an automobile accident. This notice appeared in the local papers:

Visitation will be Tuesday from 5 to 8 p.m. at Shades Mountain Baptist Church, 2017 Columbiana Rd., Birmingham, Ala. 35216. The funeral is scheduled for Wednesday at 11 a.m. at the church.

Bob Tway asked to be excused from that Wednesday's Pro-Am so that he could attend the funeral with his wife and son. It was only 150 miles away, and he would be back to tee it up on Thursday. The TOUR staff said no.

Rules, after all, are rules.

Bob is a graduate of Wheeler High School in Marietta, a suburb of Atlanta. He is a former champion of the event, winning in 1986. He grew up playing Atlanta Country Club where his father, Bob, Jr., was (and still is) a member. To say that Bob has a following in Atlanta –- one that would be deeply disappointed should he not play the tournament –- is an understatement.

So Bob chose to play, and honor the living, rather than withdraw and honor the dead.

It was a tearful decision he should never have had to make.

http://bradleyjohnsonmemorialfoundation.org/about.html

Sad story. All judgements should be made measure for measure...always putting human relationships first.

An aside: Bob Tway's son is a heck of a player. No doubt he has enjoyed many priviledges...but he has got something his Dad cannot give him...desire!

But not just any Dead- it was his son's friend and U.S. Junior finals opponent. I never heard this story- the PGA should be ashamed. And its not the only wart on the face of the PGA either. I understand Greg Norman much better now.

learn to read 6b
 

MY BAD. Yoda saved me from myself and edited my post after a PM. I failed to read that it was Brad- a friend, not his son that died. That changes something for me since it wasn't family. Had the PGA denied family time to grieve is one thing. I still think the PGA is wrong about their pro-Am policy, especially in this age. The policy should be tough but fair that rewards both parties not punish one side for the benifit of the other- and yes I understand sponsors. How would you feel in you where in a foursome that forced a player to be there when you knew his wife was sick or son was in the hospital?

That would be the PGA Tour should be ashamed, which is very different from the PGA. The PGA members take their mission to grow the game very seriously. Many are like Harvey Penick, grown up caddies. In my career, I have met many a PGA member who has offered to help me progress in the PGA.

We have our warts, but do it for the love of the game. The PGA is like a religous sect, most members have taken a vow of poverty. In all seriousness, It is a nice lifestyle, but members leave the profession to pursue more lucrative opportunities.

This post is only meant to inform not offend. Their are some other PGA members who faithful participant to this site. They have work very hard to attain and maintain their memberships. They and their organization should not be confused with the PGA Tour

Oh I agree. I meant TOUR. The teaching core- the original PGA- has been victims of several bad policies from the hands of the break off group turned multi-millionaires, “The Tour.” They lost the PGA Championships to the Tour with less and less spots allowed. I know we want to see the best but toss a bigger bone to these guys who are the ambassadors of the game. They are growth. The Tour builds mansions with this growth, the teaching core folds sweaters and deal with unhappy tee times of members, who should know better. The PGA Tour would inspire Dickens.

Thanks 6b. I will not even touch the fact that PGA decreases the # of member that can qualify for our own Championship. The fact is a foreign born administer has lobbied to increase the number of foreigner qualifiers, at the expenses of home grown members. It is a big deal for our members to qualify for this event. Now only 15 out of 27,000 make it down from 25 out of 27,000. Our 15 is still under attack and if the powers that be had it their way, it would be down to 5 or less.

Off the soap box. Again thanks for your recognition of the men and women who go mostly un-noticed. They truly love the game and are happy yp contribute it's growth.

The Shepherds
 

I started playing the Game of Golf when I was 16 years old.

After a couple of years of, shall we charitably say, 'less-than-heralded' performance, I sought professional instruction.

My P.G.A. Professional, George Preisinger, then Head Professional at Marietta CC in Marietta, Georgia, and whose daughter, Carol, is now a Golf Digest Top 100 Instructor, taught me to keep my Left Wrist Flat and Roll through Impact.

For that, I am forever grateful.

:salut:

I am not sure I will agree with that. Don't shoot me if I don't have the exact numbers, but:

125 - 150 go directly to Q-School Final Examination (thus a new chans to secure their card), and they also get into a decent amount of tournaments that pick players from that category (John Deere, B.C. Open [now Turning Stone?] Hartford etc) and they are automatically in with Nationwide status. So its not like they aren't going to make a living playing golf the next year.

150 - 175 go to second stage qualifying and also get into some tournaments and will play Nationwide tournaments (or overseas)

I think JG was 196th on the 07 money list and he has played more tournaments than some players who were above him on the list.

'Next Year' Golf
 

I guess I should have said "There is no next year on the PGA TOUR unless they earn their way back through the same channel as everybody else." Certainly, even a guaranteed return trip to the 6-round Q-School Final Stage does not equate to having a secured card.

And playing the Nationwide is a far cry from the 'big TOUR'. Start with $600,000 purses -- roughly 1/10th of the average PGA TOUR event -- endorsement money cut approximately 90 percent, no courtesy cars, full travel and caddy expenses. The truth is that very few players actually 'make' money on the Nationwide Tour. They are in a survival mode doing everything they can to regain their Exempt Status.

Also, and I'll check into this, I don't believe there is a 125-150 category from which the 'opposite events' automatically allocate spots. There are individual players who enjoy Veteran Member 'status' -- that's a technical word on the PGA TOUR -- players who "if not otherwise eligible and if needed to fill the field" have made a minimum of 150 cuts during their career (in order of their standing on the PGA TOUR Career Money List).

That status is independent of the 125 cut.

Finally, if by "JG" you meant JD, i.e., John Daly, well, I think we can all agree that this is a special case. First, despite his recent playing record, he remains a gallery favorite and a definite draw for any tournament. Second, he enjoys a 'status' that permits unlimited sponsors exemptions, a status denied most of those outside the Top 125 (if they could get a sponsor's exemption in the first place).

:salut:

125
 

For those players with full status, finishing in the top 125 at years end would be the baseline goal. No one would aim for less. They might add top 70, or more top 10's, wins, etc. Players don't want to get sent down to the minors.

126 to 150 category gets in after the whole q-school/nationwide plus some medical extensions. That category is way down the list--top 125/60+/- q-chool/ nationwide, etc. You basically would have a number of around 190 to get into a field of 132, 144, or 156. Many players have to take the week off or be otherwise committed for your number to come up. The tour is moving towards smaller fields and fewer concurrent events which limits access.

You can always go Tommy Armour III's 2007 route of Mondays, exemptions, and stellar play to regain status.

In response to Yoda's piece about the reality of being lower on the totem pole and needing to play more events to make your money. That is real. Simple formula of total money needed at the end of the year, money made per event, and number of events needed to play. Players in that category (or ones who just want to play every week--VJ) must take extra care in preserving their strength and avoiding over-training. Bottom line is to get paid when you are on your game. You need to play well on Sunday when you get yourself in position.

Inside Info
 

Thanks for the clarifications, Hennyb!

:)

Yes, yes, JG should have been JD :(

Can he really get unlimited sponsor exemptions? Doesn't the Tour have some kind of regulation on how many sponsor invites a player can accept? As a multiple major winner and with a fair amount of career winnings (to lazy to check) I can understand that his status is different from a Brendan Pappas, but surely there has to be some limit to sponsor exemptions? Just asking, don't really know.

The Exempt List -- In Priority
 

http://www.pgatour.com/players/pgatour-exempt/

For those interested, I recommend selecting and saving the above Exemptions List to an MS Word file and printing it. All PGA TOUR players are not created equal!

Note that the 125-150 category is a distant #27 on the list:

Next 25 members after the Top 125 members from previous year’s Official Money List. If needed to fill the field, the next 25 PGA TOUR members after the top 125 PGA TOUR members from the previous year’s Official Money List, in order of their position on the list.

Ted Purdy
Jeff Gove
Craig Kanada
Ryan Palmer
Harrison Frazar
Marco Dawson
Andrew Buckle
Robert Gamez
Gavin Coles
Bob Heintz
Daisuke Maruyama
Doug LaBelle II
Billy Andrade
Jason Dufner

Beyond 150, there is zero provision except for Veteran Members.

As for John Daly, note Exemptions #11 here:

Sponsor exemptions (a maximum of eight, which may include amateurs with handicaps of 0 or less), on the following basis:

Not less than two sponsor invitees shall be PGA TOUR members not otherwise exempt.
Not less than two of the top 25 finishers and ties from the last Qualifying Tournament, as well as 2-25 from the 2007 Nationwide Tour money list, if not all of them can otherwise be accommodated. (Note: PGTA TOUR members may receive an unlimited number of sponsor invitations. Non-TOUR members may receive a maximum of seven per year.)

Thanks for your comments, kumabjorn. I'm learning, too!

:salut:

Daly
 

Daly would qualify for unlimited exemptions (subject to sponsors) by being in a veteran tour member type category.

A non member can get 6 or 7, and add to that number by making a certain amount in those tourneys. That's how Tiger, Leonard, etc. bypassed Q-school.