Hogan Project
 

I set out to make a dramatic change in my golf swing 3 days ago as a project. I know a few of you here and you have seen my old motion, sorry to make you puke! So I figured since I have this book out I better get my swing in some kind of shape as to what I believe or wrote about.. So, like I said after 3 days of changing, maybe? You guys might keep your food down with this much improved action.

Good lord!!! 3 days of changing and tinkering with my swing, this is like trying to chase the tour again…



NEW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ye7p5qbFI ( New – DTL )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW5oZ85EyTs ( New – F/O )


OLD


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkJLtdSsFXQ ( Old – F/O )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKLlaPL8cJw ( Old – DTL )

Todays Work this is the 6th day of practice. and I had 2 different days on course Friday and Sunday. Seeing good results total new pivot if you ask me, still have work to do on transition thru impact...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giPrBAChe6M ( DTL )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgiBFGOgJsg ( F/0 )

Day #15 Rainy Day! Working on getting my chin up more on the DS so not to slow the upper body rotation by dropping it, and trying to work on keeping my spine angle.. I am still a little steep and catching the ball a little out to in "Cut Fades" but as the parts keep failing in place the Harley move will take care of the club steepness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi8Uelf0TJI ( DTL )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK2CYHF8Bew ( F/O )

Today - right now I am focused on the pivot and getting the club working to the top on a correct path. I want my thumbs more under the shaft at the top and have a bit to much left forearm rotation. This is causing me to not be able to Harley the club and even though my arm plane is a little steep, the Harley would keep the club from being steep much like Hogan did. Once I get this down I should not have much trouble adjusting the sequence to the transition, and then it will be more automatic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl2yP6fn9Jg ( Ball Line ) - DTL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvewViOEKU ( Foot Line ) - DTL

Working on today less pronation of the left forearm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-wKGKjWYq4

I have been bending my irons and cut them off 1 inch, also I adjusted the lofts weaker my PW is now 49 degrees, Trying to get into a more Hogan like posture and find my thumbs under the shaft at the top of the back swing, so I can find the Harley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhGv9-0as4

If you stop it at the 35 second mark - where the clubshaft is just about parallel to the ground on the follow-through- you have that Couples/VJ/Phil - right hand off the grip except the fingertips- interesting.

Here I put in Slow-mo on the second video, since thats the one I lost the right hand grip on. I thought I was the only one that would know that..LoL I am trying hard, and you can see the improvements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlXvLqWUQx8 ( Slow-mo )

Burleygolf

Since you're experimenting, why dont you try getting your elbow on the shaft plane at address with a level left wrist too. It'll take some adjustments of all kinds to get em there. See the photo of Brian Gay for a reference. But that is where you need to be at Impact after all. Id be interested to see what happens once these Alignments are incorporated. Im thinking you'd be more like Hogan than before.

Best regards

Thanks O.B., I tried that awhile back, emailed LB about it and he talked about left arm extensor, along with a few others things, just did not feel it was for me after trying. I like the idea of what you, LB and the book says and I think it works very well with most people. As for me I am more set after upper body controlled face squaring and the extention of the right arm after low point. I play my ball at low point so you can see that me trying to extend the right arm and align it with shaft angle at address is not a good move for me.



BurleyGolf-

Burley,

You won't stop steering and this is the Result.



The #1 Alignment is the Flat Left Wrist. Without this, every other component adjustment is a waste of time.

Read the EdZ Drills. Watch Yodas Finish Swivel Video Again.

Uncock the Left Wrist into the Ball. Do Not Roll, Do Not Swivel, do not pass Go. If you don't Uncock directly into the Aft Quadrant of the Ball, you will go directly to Jail.

Daryl - Its noot to my suprise to find that you are right but! That swing is from almost a month ago and I have achieved so much since then. I will put up a new face on Monday, big difference.

The left wrist only needs to be flat @ impact or slightly bowed. Once the ball has been fully compressed and the club enter's the ground it does not matter what happens next. As Hogan's core turned hard after impact the hands worked left and inside. In Homers first book he based it off the the Geometry of Hogan's swing, so were is Hogan holding a right arm flying wedge after low point, since he plays his ball at low point? 4 Barrel hitter, 2-M-3 is more of what I am trying to achieve.

I have made many changes over the last month, I only started this little project on Sept. 21st 2009 and have had 23 or 24 days of practice for 1 1/2 to 2 hours each sesson. In my mind and what I see I have made drastic improvements, and challenge anyone to make the same improvements in this time frame with light practice. I could already play before, I played and chased the tour around for several years. Now, I am rebuilding to maybe give it one more shot, maybe. Even now my scores are good and hitting the ball perfect is the least of my worries on the golf course. My wedge game from 140 yards and in and my putting are my legs, the rest of what I am working on now is to find "Harmony".

Burley, you mentioned playing the ball at or near Low Point. I know you hit a lot off of mats as do I in the winter. During those months my ball position for mid irons , short irons sneaks up in my stance towards Low Point. I start to Flip it too. From Lynn I have learned that these are all subconscious Machine Adjustments being made to protect my left wrist on the hard artificial turf. Im subconsciously taking out the Down and therefor the Out. When I get on grass after being indoors for a while I notice Im not able to take divots. I can get a little slidey too with a saggy left knee. Its all the due to the dang mats, I think.

This year Im going to buy a little strip of the mats that VJ Sing endorses on this site. Cant remember the name. But I called the supplier and they have a strip that is designed to fit into the hitting area on the mats I use. About 4' x 18" or so.

Cheers

Know what you mean about Hogan and the Right Arm being on plane at address. But in that photo of him above, you'll notice a shag boy out in the distance , right at the top of the Shaft Plane line you drew. That is his target. As such the camera is set up square to his foot line but his foot line, stance line is closed! Dramatically. So the camera is not square to his Plane Line or the flight of his ball.
This exaggerates the off the shaft plane look of his right arm. Not saying that is an Elbow Plane it isnt. But he isnt as far off it as he looks here.

Dear O.B. and Burley,

In TGM, an On Plane Right Forearm means Having a "Right Arm Flying Wedge" The Right Forearm and Clubshaft are on the same Plane as the Right Wrist Bend. It does not mean that the Right Forearm is ON The Swing Plane at Address or Release. The Right Forearm Wedge is at Right Angles to the Left Arm Wedge.

Furthermore, there is only one location in the Swing where the Flat Left Wrist actually Points to the Target; with 10-2-B; Low Point. Therefore the Right Forearm will only be flat against and resting on the Swing Plane at that Location. Unless you're on the Elbow Plane.

Therefore, when the Right Forearm is at 90 degrees to the Plane line (near address or release) during the Downstroke, it does not point at the Plane Line.

It does Matter. It matters a great deal. Please Allow me to explain.

We all agree that at Release, the Clubhead speeds up. It may speed up to 100 plus MPH; again, agreement. Much faster than the Hands; agreed. If you release too early, then the Clubhead will probably pass the Hands at or before the Ball is Struck if you try to Roll the Hands - agreed?. This Bends the Left Wrist, agreed. Then you have lost the Three dimensional Impact and have lost Clubhead and Clubface control. Are we in agreement? Therefore, you cannot adjust the ball flight and trajectory without gobbs of compensating manipulations. Pro's have such a hard time controlling the Ball Flight, they stick with one shot and play courses that SUIT THEIR GAME (Hackers).

If the Clubhead Passes the Hands a millisecond after Ball Separation, where you suggest does no harm, the cause began back at Release. The Clubhead is overtaking the Hands, but not with Rhythm, not with the same RPM.

You are only teaching your self to throw the clubhead and clubface. You are only learning Hand-Eye coordination.

Hogans core turned hard after Impact??????? Gibberish. NO MORE SO than any good golf swing would - as an automatic result of an On Plane Impact on the Elbow Plane. If you think otherwise, then you're listening to those Voodoo Witch Doctors on the Left Coast.

Burley are you referring "Swinging Left"or the Hands "cutting" Left? Id like to point out that Homer would agree the hands do , post low point move Forward, Up and IN. Homers "IN" being another mans "Left". This is a geometric truth. But the thing that is missing in the Swinging Left or the Cutting Left thing is the alignment to the Plane. You can swing left and be on plane or off. Homer wanted us to swing our hands or more correctly our Pressure Points On Plane and when doing so they will go left, for sure.

The term "cutting" left or to lesser extent "swinging" left has an implied direction to the golfers force that is well just Plane wrong to my mind. Per 1-L-10. Post Low Point , though the Hands are indeed traveling Forward, Up and In (left) the Force which is applied to the club through the Pressure Points is directed Forward, Down and Out towards the Plane Line. Any attempt to "cut" or "swing" the hands or the pressure points Left is to direct the Force OFF PLANE.

Alignments again. And Force. Geometry and Physics. Feel vs Reel. This concept is one of the truly HUGE benefits of TGM. Homer wanted us to Thrust DOWN and OUT towards the Plane Line while maintaining a bent Right Hand. The other side of the Flat Left wrist. How bent? To the degree established at Fix , per the shot at hand.

Core turn is quicker from not holding right arm wedge making hands disaper faster. Lower pivot does not release the core and makes the hands work up / left in Hogan's swing... Unlike with right arm release players who have to feel the shoulders stay back longer because of the inside arc swinging out to low point were the "LOWER PIVOT" release's the upper body to turn the core and by holding a right arm wedge it lets the club work up and left. 2 different release types.... I don't see how people can confuse this stuff!!!

What book are you reading?

1. His core turn is not any quicker than anyone else.
   
2. Letting go the right Hand after Impact is not a release.

Hogan was short. About 5'1" I think (actually 5'9" in lifts). His clubs were Flattened. His hands were probably 2 feet above ground at impact(that's pretty accurate). It will look like they disappear because he swung on an almost Horizontal Plane. :)

True. Amazingly. The flatter the Plane Angle the more the On Plane Hands (Pressure Points) move In, or left post Low Point. A pure vertical plane would have no Out or In. A pure Horizontal Plane would have no Up or Down.

Daryl,
TGM being an "educated hands" system Homer suggested you take the #3PP straight line to the aiming point. How does this work if the the right shoulder is in control? Wouldn't you lose your #3 control?

He want be able to give you the correct answer because he is stuck on a basic pattern of the book.

Let me break it down for you Daryl, Hogan played the ball under his left arm pit but his feet were wider spread. At address Hogan Cupped the left wrist for 2 reasons 1.) it helped him align himself better and 2.) It helped him achieve the Harley move which keep the club not the hands from coming in steep! Since he played his stance so wide the slight lateral action he needed from the transition to get his left hip over his left leg changed his low point from the outside of the left foot to the inside of the left foot. Hogan's hands never continued out in a strait line past the inside of his left foot because of the right side hitting the golf ball so hard and the release of the right elbow. "AFTER" the ball was compressed the hard turn of the core and release of the right elbow moved the hands inside. This is why Hogan's "DIVOT'S" pointed / went "LEFT" with the tilted vertical plane he was on. Hogan flat or bowed left wrist was a product of the right wrist angle continuing to increase well after impact, working inside and up the plane. This action was achieved by rotation of the core and pushing with the right hand, it was basically a side arm palm strike with the right hand. Your so called knowledge has you boxed in your own mind and is limited knowledge.. 24 Component's, jillions of variations!!!!! Do you know them "all" Daryl?

Oh, Hogan was 5" 7.5 his arms were longer and about a hand height above the knee. His clubs were 6 degree's flat, the shafts are extreme stiff, the heels are grounded to set open and no chance of dig, and his grips are thick with 5 wraps and a coat hanger set as a reminder @ 5:25... The woods he played had no roll and no bulge. I watched him hit balls and talked to him in 1983 as a kid, his last round of golf was 1 1/2 yrs later and it was with Kris Tschetter. Anything else you might want to know about the man?

BurleyGolf-

Did he counter balance them? Im not Tschett'n you I really want to know. Knudson's clubs where much the same and super heavy with a counter balance to get the swing weights back to normal. When I picked them up they were so heavy but after waggeling it around for a bit they felt like they'd work and just destroy the ball with their mass. They wouldnt let me hit them though.

I don't think so OB. Many of the old school pros used clubs with very high swing weights, including Mr. Hogan, Mr. Snead, and Mr. Norman (Moe). Not that it matters what I think, but I have always been more comfortable with higher swing weights as well, and struggle to get my clubs made as heavy as I like.

Kevin

The heads are heavey, but it is more because of the fact the shafts were shorter in the era and that made the shafts lighter and stiffer. The heaver head would do as you say "counter ballance and bring back the flex point. Although, this might be why everyone though Hogan's shafts felt so stiff and I believe that the dead weight was like C-9... I am not 100% on this but I was told by someone that knew Hogan very well that he added lead under the grip so not to feel the heavier end as much. I am suspecting if this is true that he did not want to worrie were the club head was and to trust what he had practiced being more aware of where the hands were..IMO

BurleyGolf-

The fellow who showed me Knudsons clubs as a young guy made the runs to the hardware store for the counter balancing that his uncle used when making a set for George. They still have his back up set in the shop for a keep sake. What did they use? Heavy threaded rod of various lengths stuck down the butt end. He told me George wasnt too particular about swing weights or anything. It was all a feel thing. Swinging them around the shop really made me think about adding weight to my clubs. They were like battering rams. All that weight required a stiffer shaft maybe.

I have not the foggiest what they used??? I think it is interesting though that the clubs sound very similar in makeup. I know you have heard about the old pro's putting Bee-Bee's in there putter shafts to make it heaver, Right? Well, I know that Miller Barber and Babe Hiskey put salt in the shafts of their drivers, how weird is that...

BurleyGolf-

Train the Pivot to force the Right Shoulder to direct the #3 Pressure Point to trace the Base Line.

Yes, thank you.

His famous 1 iron shot. How far was it struck?

Ironing out the details
 

About 200 yards. Hogan was not a counter of yards, but believed in playing the shot at hand by the feel he dug out of the dirt.

Hmm? I wonder if that was his normal distance? Does anyone know his clubs/distance? I don't think I've ever seen a chart or heard anyone talk about it. Odd.

The long and short of it
 

Page 15 in Hogan's first book "Power Golf":

Driver, Regular 265, Maximum 300, Minimum 235
One Iron, Regular 195, maximum 220, Minimum 185
Five Iron, Regular 155, Maximum 180, Minimum 145
Nine Iron, Regualr 115, Maximum 140, Minimum 105

All clubs are listed on page 15, but remember that the manufacturing concept of "diminishing lofts" has turned these clubs numbers useless. The PW of today was the eight iron of Hogan's time.

His yardages, after adjusting for Ball type, loft, etc. seem only moderate or average or normal. So, he wasn't considered a slugger then?

Fruits of Labor
 

He was never considered short off the tee. While he was never long like Jimmy Thomson or Sam Snead, Hogan was long when he had to be or wanted to be. His objective was always about predicting outcome from the best vantage point, thinking three shots ahead, so he could put food on the table instead of eating oranges from the side of the road.

There is a stat I will never forget seeing when I was in high school. This was sometime between 1971 to 1975. The AVERAGE drive on tour was 242 yards. About where they hit 3 irons today! Based upon this stat, Mr. Hogan was actually pretty long, unless he was exaggerating his yardages like all the experts on the golf forums. :laughing9

Kevin

Out to Launch
 

Kevin,

I always get a kick out of putting people on a Launch Monitor. I always ask them how far they hit their driver. After I look at the numbers, there is always a major gap in where they think they are (ego driven) compared to where they really are (ball speed).

Little bit of todays practice with extra... I even got a face on for you Daryl so you can make fun of me some more... I am so nice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOVuWvZcwjg

BurleyGolf-

I was always getting in trouble with the lunch monitor at school too Kev. We've got a lot in common you and I.

You're doing the wrong things. But you do them exceptionally well.

Lol..Thanks that Awesome!

BurleyGolf-