Friend is swinging too far inside out
 

I'm meeting a good player at the range this evening to help him with his swing. This guy is swinging too far inside out accross the target line (he's under the plane line coming down). He can shoot 69 one day and 80 the next. He can block it, block fade it, or flip hook it. Starting the ball left of target and gently fading a shot back towards the target is definitely not an option for this player at this time.

I don't have the energy to drag my plane board out of the basement tonight, but I may have to do so.

Does anyone have any other drills, thoughts, or concepts that will help inside-out swingers get more on plane?

Are we meeting at the range this evening? You just described my swing and my misses perfectly!

For me, this is caused by a pull compensation that I'm getting rid of. This thread has some good info http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674. I like Brian's message where he states "The club should enter the ball at 4 o'clock but EXIT at 8:00!". My swing was entering at 4 and leaving at 10, and when I make it exit at 8 it forces me to get my plane up where it should be.

I'm very interested in other's responses.

Re: Friend is swinging too far inside out
 

You need to be sure he is really bending his planeline and swinging inside out or if he is simply swinging on a flatter plane angle. Big difference that needs to be checked. His problems could be an issue of clubface control and not plane.

It is most definitely plane angle
 

This is definitely a "clubshaft" control issue. Video from "down the line" shows his clubhead approaching impact from under the address shaft angle, or as I prefer to call it, "shaft angle plane".

The clubshaft is not pointing at the plane line / target line, but well beyond.

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the help. That was a good post. I will try the 4:00 and 8:00 concept with him. That may help.

Re: Friend is swinging too far inside out
 

Other than video what's the easiest way to verify this? As I mentioned, I'm working on this very issue and have diagnosed it as a plane problem. The only way I know to check this without video or a plane board is to do some mirror work and some slow motion swings to see what's going on.

Thanks.

Plane lasers or flashlights to trace a straight plane line

One light goes on the butt end of the club and the other points down the clubshaft right at the sweetspot.

Now trace a straight plane line and have the lights point at your plane line unless the shaft is parallel to the plane line.

:oops: doh! I did actually know about that...it was burried with a bunch of other TGM stuff. I guess that's sort of what I was doing with the mirror work, but I'll definately get out the flashlights to practice and verify. Thanks for the reminder

Re: Friend is swinging too far inside out
 

First, you need to work with a laser, flashlight, or planeboard. I recommend a planeboard because you can adjust the plane angle. Once you learn what it means to point at a straight plane line, you can transfer the feel to your right forarm and you will just 'know' if you are on plane or not by feel. Learn feel from correct mechanics.

One thing that Ted Fort pointed out to me that really helped my underplane issues was Extensor Action. My right elbow was getting a little too "close to me" coming down which brought my hands and clubshaft underplane.

Really get a "wide" feeling via Extensor Action as you are coming down. It'll feel like the club is way out in front of you.

Flashlight/laser work out is by far IMO better than troubleshooting your swing on a full plane board, unless you know your plane, your shifts, etc.

Half plane board to show the concept seems to make sense for the clubs action on an inclinde plane, the up, back and in.

In fact in my research and studying I find the pictures in 10-5, 10-6 and 10-7 support first to learn with Light after you grasp the motion on an inclinced plane. In fact still trying to see how to tell golfers to place lines on Mirrors to help them with their swing as well as defining the correct lines for video analysis (though I am closer on that).

Great post Matt..... the importance, and benefits of, extensor action should never be underestimated.

Just like hitting 'down' (you either KNOW you did, or you didn't) either KNOW that you have maintained your extensor action through the ball, or you didn't do it.....

How do you know? - You KNOW your wedges are in place and you don't have to 'do' anything to keep them in place

Absolutely agree on the 'feeling the club out in front of you' through to both arms straight - like you 'serve it up' with the extension of the right arm and rotation 'happens'

timing/tempo/rhythm/plane - the flying wedges - are SO much easier to get right with proper extensor action it is almost like cheating

Thanks, I know this is an issue for me...when I'm not hitting the ball well, my right forearm comes in too high and I don't have that "tight" feeling. After watching the TT videos I'm much better with this.

vj, any update on your friend? I'm curious if any images/drills/techniques helped him out.

As I mentioned I'm working on this now, also...I should also mention I've not worked with an AI, but hope to this golf season, so take this w/ a grain of salt.

After studying the TT vids and a week or so of great lag and solid contact, the blocks, hooks, and fats started creeping back in. Working on my plane and extensor action didn't really the problem, but it did expose hands that were being controlled by my pivot and were less educated than I thought. My hands, in response to my pivot were dropping way under plane and felt like I was hitting up on the ball. Over the past couple of years I've made changes to my swing that helped short term, but as I got comfortable with the changes, the poor pivot and uneducated hands which led to downstroke blackout always derail my progress.

I'm tired of this happening, so I've resolved to educate my hands. This week I've taken my pitching wedge to the range and hit punch shot after punch shot, only worrying about pressure points and wedges, tracing the plane line, and taking a divot in front of the ball. I'm finally feeling it...in my hands/pressure points, basically on plane, w/ pivot responding to their movements. Lots of shots are straight on, lots are slight pulls (lifting/rolling and not clearing the right hip on the way back I think), but almost all are solid, rising shots with tons of spin. A few fades and fats when I come in too high and drop the club under, but NO BLOCKS. Still work to be done w/ dowels, tracing the plane line, and trying everything out with the rest of my clubs, but the overall swing feels way different (better) than my block swing.

Thanks, guys

A modified drill that leadbetter made famous really worked for my buddy. I am referring to the "Pump1, Pump2 and Go" drill that is written about in "The Golf Swing" as well as in his Faults & Fixes video with Nick Price.

Basically, you address the ball, and take your backswing until the left arm is parallel to the ground, or, in other words, the 9:00 position. You monitor the position of the club at this point, checking to make sure that the club is on plane. Leadbetter likes to have the shaft point between the plane line and the toe line while doing this drill, but I think that position is too upright (and offplane according to TGM), so I had my friend do the drill with the club pointing right at an extension of the plane line while he was at the 9:00 position. From this position you "pump" the club up and down a couple of times to gain some rhythm and motion, and on the third pump, you complete your backswing turn and hit the ball. This is a great drill that works wonders for under plane swingers. The key is that 9:00 position. Under-plane swingers, or inside-outers, cannot believe how vertical the shaft appears at the 9:00 position especially when compared to how they have been yanking the club off plane and to the inside on their "normal" backswing.

Downstroke waggles, anyone? :lol:

I like that drill and have used it with success in the past - I will try it again next time I hit balls. I don't tend to jerk the club inside and flat, rather I shift to a flatter plane during transition...my hands were clueless...I think they've graduated kindergarten this week, though. :wink:

Tiger?
 

is this similar to what Tiger has happen when he "pushes" his driver right..........the announcers keep stateing "he gets the club stuck behind him"

ie........takes it too far inside, then too quick body forces 4:0o to 10:00?

Re: Tiger?
 

Getting "stuck" is part of my problem w/ blocks; I sometimes drive too hard with my hips/right foot and my right hip gets in the way of my arms. This forces me to re-route everything, usually below plane, and basically time a flip into the ball. Too quick and the ball is going left, not quick enough...fore right. The worst part is that it's unpredictable and the ball still goes a long way...usually OB. I'm trying to convince my brain that I don't need my hips that much for power :wink: