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-   -   directional control and pressure points (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7818)

dlam 12-07-2010 10:00 PM

directional control and pressure points
 
I know this sounds crazy and bit too elementary but I have associated pressure points to directional control of the clubface, clubshaft and clubhead.

For me Directional Clubhead control is via P4 and P2
Directional Clubface control is P1
Directional Clubshaft control is P3.

This directional control is to describe the forward swing only.

BerntR 12-08-2010 01:12 AM

DLam,

I think HK concluded almost opposite. Clubface control - left hand, clubhead control - right hand. Although I don't think this is all black and white since you will have better control on both parameters with two hands on the club. But nevertheless I would say that as a guideline it works 100% most of the time.

dlam 12-08-2010 01:50 PM

Yes, I think it maybe that I prefer the left arm wedge as a way to control the clubhead. My preference is to combine that with either a square or turned shoulder plane.
The right forearm wedge being along the plane with the clubshaft doesn't work on a consistent basis with me.
It does work for a lot other golfers.but not me

BerntR 12-08-2010 02:11 PM

Very few good players have their right forearm on the inclined plane at address. IMO you can achieve more lag, more lag pressure and a longer distance from impact to both arms straight if you address the ball with lower hands.

Yoda 12-08-2010 09:00 PM

Hands At Address -- Impact Height Or Lower?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 79402)

The right forearm wedge being along the plane with the clubshaft doesn't work on a consistent basis with me.
It does work for a lot other golfers.but not me

Dlam,

You say the On Plane Right Forearm Wedge "doesn't work" for you. Are you absolutely sure you are doing it correctly? Have you worked with a competent professional who understands the necessary integrated alignments of Body, Arms and Hands? Or, is this as I suspect, merely a "do it yourself" project? My point is, don't blame the alignments when the fault may well be your own misapplication. On the other hand, you may be using the Turning Shoulder Plane ("straight back / straight through"). In which case, the Arms will 'hang' and point well inside the Baseline; then, swing back-and-through parallel to it. Or, you may be using the Squared Shoulder Plane you mentioned above. In which case, an On Plane Right Forearm at address -- while possible -- feels and appears 'ungolflike'.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BerntR (Post 79403)
Very few good players have their right forearm on the inclined plane at address. IMO you can achieve more lag, more lag pressure and a longer distance from impact to both arms straight if you address the ball with lower hands.

BerntR,

If "lower hands" at address works for you, then by all means, go for it!

:salut:

But, a question . . .

Will your hands also be "lower" at impact? Or, will they be higher (than at address)? If so, then how much higher will they be? And, if they are higher -- and they almost certainly are -- then how does going from "lower" hands at address to higher hands at impact translate into "more lag, more lag pressure and a longer distance from impact to both arms straight".

:confused1

O.B.Left 12-08-2010 11:34 PM

I had low hands at address for decades. For full shots they'd get up higher by Impact but I could never figure out why my little chip shots always felt sort of muffled. Something that went away immediately when I got my arms set properly at Address. There simply wasnt enough time to raise the low hands during a little chip shot and therefor no Right Forearm Flying Wedge.

The Right Forearm Flying Wedge.........you can take that dang thing away from me but it will be from my cold dead, educated hands.

Yoda 12-09-2010 12:19 AM

Lessons Learned . . . Rewards Earned
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 79418)

The Right Forearm Flying Wedge.........you can take that dang thing away from me but it will be from my cold dead, educated hands.

You've learned your lessons well, O.B., and it shows. Our times together have been special . . .

Our first meeting six years ago in Orlando at Orange County National.

Later, at the original 'Swamp', the Marietta (Georgia) Golf Center.

Then, more Swamp time and Augusta -- The Masters! -- with Brother John, who has since become a mainstay in our sessions.

Not to mention . . .

Boatloads of fun with our group at Atlanta Country Club. Later . . .

Cuscowilla, in Eatonton, Georgia, the 'new' Swamp.

And, your invite to work three days with your group in Toronto at Glen Abbey.

Then, this winter upon my return from Hawaii and the SBS and Sony, at St. Simons Island, Georgia.

The last, again with brother John, at St. Andrews this year and The Open Championship.

Thank you for your friendship, James. And, for your golfing passion and commitment to excellence. It has been my honor and privilege to have been included in your personal journey. Meanwhile . . .

Spring comes, and more good times await.

See you soon!

:salut:

BerntR 12-09-2010 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 79410)

BerntR,

If "lower hands" at address works for you, then by all means, go for it!

:salut:

That was my conclusion to, after trying to adopt to level wrists address for several months. :laughing9
Quote:


But, a question . . .

Will your hands also be "lower" at impact? Or, will they be higher (than at address)?
Higher at impact than at address. Elbow plane. Also higher left hip at impact.
Quote:


If so, then how much higher will they be? And, if they are higher -- and they almost certainly are -- then how does going from "lower" hands at address to higher hands at impact translate into "more lag, more lag pressure and a longer distance from impact to both arms straight".

:confused1
Glad you asked!

The answer to your lag pressure question is best described as different use of Accumulator #4. Accumulator #4 has a horizontal and a vertical component. The vertical is probably the same but I have a lot more left of the horizontal part of A #4 lag through impact. Not releasing as much A#4 before impact keeps the pivot more actively engaged. For me anywah. The feet are also working harder and I feel much more ground pressure through the ball. There's just more brute force through the ball and that gives a bigger error margin in more ways than one.

The impact alignment I have would make up for a very uncomfortable literal impact fix position, so that is out of the question. The right forearm is btw on the clubshaft plane at impact.

The Right Shoulder is further away from the ball at impact than at address. Slightly more turned perhaps but certainly more tilted. Therefore I need some slack between the Right shoulder and ball at address. Thus the lower hands.

PS: I have nothing against level wrists address. But I basically think the address position should support the down stroke and not the other way around. In my case there was clearly an alignment conflict with level wrists address and the pivot driven down stroke that I have in me.

KevCarter 12-09-2010 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 79418)
I had low hands at address for decades. For full shots they'd get up higher by Impact but I could never figure out why my little chip shots always felt sort of muffled. Something that went away immediately when I got my arms set properly at Address. There simply wasnt enough time to raise the low hands during a little chip shot and therefor no Right Forearm Flying Wedge.

The Right Forearm Flying Wedge.........you can take that dang thing away from me but it will be from my cold dead, educated hands.

AMEN!

The set up using a level left wrist and right forearm on plane was the final nail in the coffin for my 5 year struggle with the chip yips! Even my dumb hands can get an education with addition of a solid structure. :salut:

Kevin

KevCarter 12-09-2010 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerntR (Post 79423)
That was my conclusion to, after trying to adopt to level wrists address for several months. :laughing9
Higher at impact than at address. Elbow plane. Also higher left hip at impact.

Glad you asked!

The answer to your lag pressure question is best described as different use of Accumulator #4. Accumulator #4 has a horizontal and a vertical component. The vertical is probably the same but I have a lot more left of the horizontal part of A #4 lag through impact. Not releasing as much A#4 before impact keeps the pivot more actively engaged. For me anywah. The feet are also working harder and I feel much more ground pressure through the ball. There's just more brute force through the ball and that gives a bigger error margin in more ways than one.

The impact alignment I have would make up for a very uncomfortable literal impact fix position, so that is out of the question. The right forearm is btw on the clubshaft plane at impact.

The Right Shoulder is further away from the ball at impact than at address. Slightly more turned perhaps but certainly more tilted. Therefore I need some slack between the Right shoulder and ball at address. Thus the lower hands.

PS: I have nothing against level wrists address. But I basically think the address position should support the down stroke and not the other way around. In my case there was clearly an alignment conflict with level wrists address and the pivot driven down stroke that I have in me.

I remember well your struggles with this BerntR. I think I was involved as well. You certainly gave it a good try and spent a lot of time at it... Like YODA and HOMER said:

Quote:

If you don't like a given Component Variation, recommended or otherwise, then HOMER KELLEY would be the first to tell you to avoid it and use something else. The reasons for 'not liking' something ranges from physical inability to execute to psychological. There are ten trillion Strokes in TGM, roughly half Hitting and half Swinging. Use the one(s) you like. Again quoting HOMER, "Do whatever you like. Have fun! Enjoy the game!"
I learned from your struggles with this and appreciate all the sharing you do with us!

Kevin


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