Turn and Roll
 

Confusion:

We’re given an education in the Rotational "Wrist Conditions" at 4-C-0. HK identifies "Rotation" as “Hand Motion”.

4-C-0 clearly indicated that the Hand (Wrist) rotates, but in 2-G Hinge Motion, HK says that ““Roll” is actually imparted by the turning torso and/or the orbiting Arms per 2-K#4 and 2-K#5 as described in 10-18”.

Well, what is he talking about?

Do you Turn and Roll or Not???
Is Turning and Rolling done by the Torso and orbiting arms?
Is Homer mixing terms?

Yes the man had a certain way words didnt he!

I like the notion of the Left Palm laying flat to the Inclined Plane after what lynn calls Startup Swivel. It slides up and down the plane until the Release Point . In fact the non auto Release Trigger for the Wrist Throw is said to be turning of the Right (or Left Hand) off its flat to Plane Condition. (Big aside here.... it might seem like the club would move above plane but IMO it doesnt , cant as CF pulls it out, on line. Pulls #2 angle out . Im in the Lab here maybe)

So to answer your question in regard to what gets the left palm flat to plane on the backswing: It depends! Depends upon the nature of the shot , how much pivot is involved. If you zeroed the pivot say but got the left hand on plane (speaking theoretically here rather practically as thats a weird procedure ..... although I played with a 95 year old once who did this. He could stand up but he could walk) the arms would do far more than the pivot . Ill let you imagine the vice versa version.

This is where Independent Arm and Pivot Motion , Hands to PIvot (perhaps HKs second most misunderstood concept after the Angle of Approach PROCEDURE) comes into play. Homer called it Hands to Pivot but he didnt invent again. Its natural , what we do all day. In golf its been described in " Down to Scratch " 1933 , "Golf "by Robert G McDonald 1927 and the Wild Bill drill of course addresses the co-ordinated by but independent relationship of the arms and pivot. Simply put its golf motion in a manner similar to everyday motion or others sports motions as opposed to a contrived pivot centric manner of moving the hands. The body is multi levered by design , for a purpose , we are wired to co-ordinate the hands arms pivot when reaching , throwing etc . No thought required . No time required . For some reason in golf we cook up a very un natural body / arm motion. And steering. Our frustration with the game at first causes us to THINK and golf is not what it first appears to be. The angled nature of the club , the lie angle , with the little face makes it like very few other implements . We try to find a line , a straight line which is in end correct but we cover it when we should be tracing it. Hence Steering the clubhead straight back , straight through. Same sort of thing for the face. Add pivot to hands and you have the most popular procedure in golf . The hackers procedure. There being exceptions to most everything it can work for putting . Straight Back Straight Through , Shoulder Stroke . I dont like it but thats just me. Some do very well with it.

My opinion- HK was PRECISE with the exception of one part of 2-G. HINGE MOTION. "..... is a true rotation of the Hands into Impact alignments by Accumulator #3 with (10-18-A only)....."

I might suggest that it should say - is a true rotation of the Hands into Impact alignments by rolling the wedges with (10-18-A only).

This rolling of the wedges starts at the top-start down- and is completed BEFORE the hands enter the pully.
At this point enter turning and rolling by the orbiting arms- BUT there is NO rolling - this is the period of "sequential" ( another misunderstood word) release- "trogonometric" release would be appropriate.

Just my understanding and analysis of what HK wrote.

HB

Angular motion.........angular speed
 

I am seeking clarification on the both,angular motion and especially angular speed......please and thanks in advance:question:

Not sure exactly what U are asking BUT:

Angular motion is- a clocks hands.

Angular "speed" (velocity) is- second hand 6 deg. second, minute hand 6 deg minute, hour hand 30 deg hour.

HB

The reason I eing called angular speedsked for clarification is Im lead to believe it is the straightening of the R/wrist bend at or just after impact,now I can remember somewhere in the book that this is ok so long as you have educated hands,I will find it,but is this correct ?:confused:

The reason asked for clarification of angular speed:confused: is Im lead to believe it is the straightening of the R/wrist bend at or just after impact,now I can remember somewhere in the book that this is ok so long as you have educated hands,I will find it,but is this correct ?:confused:

IMO angular speed is not the straightening of the right wrist bend, aka throwaway definitionally.

Here's Homers definition from the book ;

The quote you're looking for might be in 7-19 Lag Loading where Homer talks about how a thrown clubhead will not ruin the shot if the ball is hit prior to the clubhead passing the hands. Im paraphrasing here.

For the 7th edition, in that sentence from 2-G, "Roll" was changed to "it" (Hinging):

Hinge MOTIONS (geometry) describe the Clubface Motions through Impact (closing only, layback only, closing and layback), 2-G.

Hinge ACTIONS (physics) describe and control Hand Manipulations to control these Clubface Motions, 7-10. At Low Point, the Left Wrist is Vertical to all three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Angled, Vertical). Hinge Action holds the Left Wrist Vertical to one of these three Basic Planes. This Action is imparted (conveyed) by the turning torso and/or the orbiting arms.

Rotational Wrist Conditions (4-C) are defined on the basis of the Hinge Action being used. Vertical (4-C-1) means that the Left Wrist is vertical to the Basic Plane used by the selected Hinge Action (the Horizontal Plane for Horizontal Hinging, the Angled Plane for Angled Hinging, or the Vertical Plane for Vertical Hinging). Accordingly, Turned (4-C-2) means turned towards that Basic Plane, Rolled (4-C-3) means rolled towards that Basic Plane.

But the Clubface Motion is always viewed against the background of the Plane Line. Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Horizontal Plane makes the Clubface appear to close (visually) in relation to the Plane Line. This gives the (optical) Appearance (7-10) of a Full Roll.

And the Club always moves on an Inclined (Angled) Plane. Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Horizontal Plane (Horizontal Hinging) makes the Left Wrist "roll" in relation to the Inclined (Angled) Plane ("roll" is put in quotes here because, technically, the Angled Plane is not the Plane that the definitions in 4-C would refer to for a Horizontal Hinging procedure). This creates the Feel (7-10) of a "Roll".

Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Angled Plane makes the Clubface appear to close (visually) in relation to the Plane Line, but less than with Horizontal Hinging; this gives Angled Hinging the (optical) Appearance (7-10) of a Half Roll. Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Angled Plane makes the Left Wrist remain Vertical to the Plane on which the Club moves and, therefore, creates the Feel (7-10) of a "No Roll".

Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Vertical Plane makes the Clubface appear to not close (visually) in relation to the Plane Line; this gives the (optical) Appearance (7-10) of a No Roll. Holding the Left Wrist Vertical to the Vertical Plane makes the Left Wrist "turn" in relation to the Inclined (Angled) Plane; this creates the Feel (7-10) of a "Reverse Roll".

In the 5th edition, in 4-C-3, HK said

In the 7th edition, in the last paragraph of 4-0, HK said that when the Vertical Wrist is moving to the left during the downstroke,

That's great Par71.

If you understand that, then you understand that the On-Plane Right Forearm Angle of Approach does all of the work.