Buck played with an open stance so we could have a little camera issue there. But Hogan's shaft and Left Arm don't look In-Line to me. And Mr. K for sure hasn't reached In-Line. And your dude isn't at impact yet. Per Mr. K the Lever Assembly is always only inches away from Full-Extension . . .or something like that.
What were we fightin' about again? This is like me and what's her name at home. I get blistered and I can't remember what I done.
Tell me what your problem is sweetie . . . sorry I mean Tongzilla.
Yes, I agree with your remarks of not being in-line yet. Yes, and all these folks support Mr. K's idea that the Lever Assembly is only inches away from full extension at Impact. We're not fighting about anything since we agree .
Basically, the main points I'm trying to make are: David Molbey's Left Wrist isn't Arched even though the Ball is in front of his Left Shoulder and the Clubshaft is leaning forwards at Impact and the Clubhead is still not ascending at Impact. This can happen if your Aiming Point is very far forward, which means the in-line condition isn't reached until much later. What makes this photo so unusual is that the Ball is way ahead of the Left Shoulder at Impact, and yet the Clubshaft and the Left Arm is still considerably out of line. Also notice how if I were to swivel that blue line representing the Clubshaft, so that it just touches the ball (Impact), the Clubshaft would still be leaning forwards.
Mobley's grip is prolly very strong too.....(Bent looking at the top (I've seen a vid)....appears like it will be Turned at Impact...)...
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What I see:
-hands moving up, w/ Flat Left Wrist...cause they're beyond the centre of the Fulcrum that is the left arm....i.e. if the arm was straight the entire swing and anchored at the shoulder (as most arms are....**hey-ooooooo!**) the left hand will have traced a circle around the left shoulder.....maybe a slightly flatish circle if that centre moves forward during the swing.....but regardless, it is centred at the shoulder
-clubhead moving at least level due to forward Aiming Point (and or unltra-dely or lack of Release....see below for more...)
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So....
Does a lack fo Release or super late (ultra-Snap? lol) Release have anything to do with it? What would it be? No Release? Snap Relese? How would you define a Release?
Also notice how if I were to swivel that blue line representing the Clubshaft, so that it just touches the ball (Impact), the Clubshaft would still be leaning forwards.
So here's something to think about for those who say that Low Point is always opposite the Left Shoulder when you have a Flat Left Wrist.
Maybe that's the Low Point with a Flat AND Vertical Left Wrist????
BTW: (it's always the Low Point of the hands tho, isn't it?)
Cause if you grip it Turned.......the face is square to a Turned left wrist (even if that wrist is Flat)....and a Turned grip would tend to add forward lean I'd think.
Last edited by birdie_man : 02-20-2006 at 06:14 PM.
Yellow Line: where Low Point would be if it was opposite Left Shoulder.
Red Line: Impact Line
Blue Lines: Power Package and Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club)
Grey Triangle: Base of neck in relation to feet.
Green Line: Axis Tilt
The only way that Clubhead will be going up from there is if the Clubshaft doesn't get any more in line with the Left Arm. Which is extremely unlikely.
Tong,
Great work with the lines! Really helps isolate some of the conversation or at least take a little of the "seems as if" out of the equation. (I need to get up to speed on some of those computer programs!) In fact, I think "your" cover with the lines, looks better than the original magazine cover!
With everything- there is always room for interpretation, understanding, etc. So I'm not pushing all in on this one, but I'm still sticking with my original analysis. Specifically in regards to the upswing comment A) looks to me like if that clubhead goes down much more he is not going to hit it on the face properly and B) From where he is - I don't see why he couldn't retain whatever angles he has remaining (#1,#2, #3, #4 accumulators)until impact- afterall, at that speed and time between where the clubhead is now and impact - not much is going to happen- whatever down or up the clubhead makes is going to be small. I just think that due to everything else that I'm seeing and specifically if the clubhead could move up or down from that pre-impact location- that it would or would need to move up.
It would be great to get a photo at impact of this guy and then draw your lines showing any movement change between this frame and the impact frame. Even with lines it might be so small that you couldn't isolate the change visually.
Interesting topic though- and to isolate what I thought was at least one of the original questions-
A) What's happening here? I guess we're still figuring that out.
B) Can TGM explain it. This is where I think you and I had/have a different impression regarding what was happening. But regardless, in this context whatever is happening - I feel that TGM could definitely still explain it- after all you've put the question right in the TGM arena - regarding low point, angular motion, etc. I'm one who has never said that TGM had ALL the answers- but on this one whatever the answer is- I think TGM would have it.
With all of that said, I know that I'm just making an educated or maybe an uneducated guess- I'm not sure we'll really be able to answer the clubhead up or down issue, in regards to his swing and where it's moving from here to impact- let's see what floats to the top - as the posting continues.
At the risk of sounding obnoxiously repetitive, I will try to clarify a few points. If you tried to swivel my blue line representing the Clubshaft so that it now touches the Ball (Impact), the Clubshaft will still clearly be leaning forwards. Lets call this scenario #1.
Now, one may argue that the Clubshaft will not move like that because the Hands are moving forwards. So lets take this perspective to the extreme -- the Hands from this position shown in the photo move forwards, but all the relevant angles remain constant. Lets call this scenario #2.
Is the Clubhead going up or down? The answer now depends on whether the Hands are going up or down. We can't say for definite, but I'm pretty sure than Hands won't be going down any further from that point. Hence the Clubhead will be ascending during Impact.
Assuming the Left Wrist is Level in the picture (a very plausible assumption), it will be Uncocking from this frame to Follow Through (2-P). That certainly makes scenario #2 a less likely candidate, i.e. unlikely the Clubhead will be ascending during Impact.
Some more information on scenario #1. I said that the blue line (Clubshaft) swivels to Impact. But how? So far, I have only mentioned the Left Wrist Unocking more thereby lengthening the Primary Lever Assembly (a perpendicular motion, but since the Hands are Turned slightly, it will cause the Clubhead to move forward as well as downward).
However, there is also the effect of the Left Wrist Rolling, which will cause the Clubshaft to appear more in-line with the Left Arm from the front view without any Unocking of the Left Wrist. Since Molbey is a Swinger who needs to strike the ball with maximum compression, it is very likely that Horizontal Hinging is being used. And this will clearly accentuate the Rolling effect described. Like Homer said, there must be a definite Hinge Action for every shot, and anyone who wants to argue that there will not be any additional Roll between this frame shown and Separation will need to give a very strong and well thought out reason (e.g. everything is moving so quickly and there is very little time in between, is not a good enough reason).
Tong,
Great work with the lines! Really helps isolate some of the conversation or at least take a little of the "seems as if" out of the equation. (I need to get up to speed on some of those computer programs!) In fact, I think "your" cover with the lines, looks better than the original magazine cover!
Thanks Mike . I only used Paint which has been a standard with Windows for god knows how long. None of this fancy Photoshop business. But apparently one can be much more precise with Photoshop. Anyway, this should be suffcient for now.
Mobley's grip is prolly very strong too.....(Bent looking at the top (I've seen a vid)....appears like it will be Turned at Impact...)...
One may draw the conclusion that David Mobley has a strong grip because his Left Hand looks very Turned in the photo, so the back of the Left Hand is looking more towards us (the camera) than the Target.
However, a little more detective work needs to be done. Note how the Mobley's Clubface is also Turned (facing more towards the camera), since we can see a large portion of the Clubface. This closely matches the condition of his Left Hand, so the grip is actually more neutral than it seems.
If David Mobley is hitting the ball with his hands infront (i.e the clubshaft had not yet reached it's inline conditon with the left arm) and he is not arching his wrist, then surely he must have a strong grip to square the clubface?
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. I only used Paint which has been a standard with Windows for god knows how long. None of this fancy Photoshop business. But apparently one can be much more precise with Photoshop. Anyway, this should be suffcient for now.
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