That chip on your shoulder is growing. Maybe you should take it down a notch.
You claimed earlier that photos can't reveal information about the Golf Swing, and now claim "Swing videos" are an "illusion". I guess that only you and your lab equipment remain as the only credible source of Golf Swing Mechanics and Analysis.
""Lagpressure" is a Hitter". By who's definition? Yours? His? I'll buy that. Strictly TGM? No Chance.
You guys are way off the 'Reservation' by re-defining TGM terminology to fit your own interpretation and agenda. That's not credible.
What do ya think of the following statement?
"Remember that we can use a big “sit down” position to initiate the change in direction, the legs are part of our pivot...and in TGM that would be our 4th accumulator. "
What would YOU think if I said that my Accumulator sequence was: (4 + 1 + (2+3) +4 + 1+ 5)
Recently, a BioMechanics guy made the following statement: "Homer has some great information although here's the problem is people perceptions and points of view of homers work. Get a ton of TGM guys in one room and everyone has a different perception or point of view on his work."
I suppose it was meant to discredit TGM in General. Yet the same can be said of a room full of BioMechanics researchers and trainers.
In "The Impact Zone" by Bobby Clampett, a story is told about a man from Canada after finishing a good lesson, turned and said to Ben; "Ben, I really understand what you meant." Ben replied "No you don't. You have knowledge. If you understood, you could apply it". Forgive me for paraphrasing, but Ben's response should be clear.
Of those Ton of TGM guy's in a room, at least you didn't say they were all experts. However, it's unfortunate that you forgot to mention that when the TGM guy with the disagreement is taught what Homer intended, he no longer disagrees.
Prologue. TGM is a small world. Give me the names of those guys you're talking about and I'll point to the expert so you'll know who he is. But I don't expect you to understand.
Daryl,
I'm very familar with TGM world and one of the first doctrate of TGM , taught me from day one I started playing and I went onto teaching TGM myself with a very good track record in teaching.
My clients are even better now I gave them physics.
One girl is 15, she went to all the best coaches and they all gave up on her. She couldn't break 100 and been playing for 3 years. When I worked with her in 12 months she is now breaking 75. Every week she breaks 80. All I gave her is physics.
Lag's hitting ,doesn't look like he does and at first I thought swinger visually the data tells the story a different story.
In TGM terms he's hitting according to his data.
Daryl have you ever listened to homers 120 hours of casette's speaking about TGM and touch on hitting and swinging? we'll worth listening to an eye opener.
Don't come back to me with garbage research interpretation. "According to TGM"? Where in TGM does Homer tell you that TGM Terminology works with your Data?
Quote:
Lag's hitting ,doesn't look like he does and at first I thought swinger visually the data tells the story a different story. In TGM terms he's hitting according to his data.
Your instruments may measure forces on your feet at release but do they tell you if the measured forces are caused by slapping vs. punching alignments? Ben Doyle states that Slapping is much more powerful than punching. He's been teaching TGM for 50 years. How many years have you taught TGM?
Shouldn't you rephrase your statement"Even with my limited TGM knowledge, Lag sure looks like he's a swinger, but he says he's hitting, so he must be a hitter, because he says so."
I don't know you or your teacher, I don't know Lagressure.
But if you and he want to peddle this, (4 + 1 + (2+3) +4 + 1+ 5) then go ahead. But if you claim that this is consistent with TGM then I say you have both lost your minds.
You guys are way off the 'Reservation' by re-defining TGM terminology to fit your own interpretation and agenda. That's not credible.
Don't come back to me with garbage research interpretation. "According to TGM"? Where in TGM does Homer tell you that TGM Terminology works with your Data?
Your instruments may measure forces on your feet at release but do they tell you if the measured forces are caused by slapping vs. punching alignments? Ben Doyle states that Slapping is much more powerful than punching. He's been teaching TGM for 50 years. How many years have you taught TGM?
Shouldn't you rephrase your statement"Even with my limited TGM knowledge, Lag sure looks like he's a swinger, but he says he's hitting, so he must be a hitter, because he says so."
I don't know you or your teacher, I don't know Lagressure.
But if you and he want to peddle this, (4 + 1 + (2+3) +4 + 1+ 5) then go ahead. But if you claim that this is consistent with TGM then I say you have both lost your minds.
You guys are way off the 'Reservation' by re-defining TGM terminology to fit your own interpretation and agenda. That's not credible.
Daryl,
I'm not here to get into arguments with you.
We can measure x,y and z forces. How much for is going at the ball, up and down and away and towards the body. We can pin point exactly at what point the club head begins to release.
Can tell you linear speeds and angular speed as well at any point in the downswing and after impact.
We can tell at what point you reached maximum linear and angular speed.Also both these speeds at impact.
When the club accelerate/ decelerates at any given point.
There are tons of guys on video who appear to be firing the hips first, although the data shows they fire the hands first.
Do you know that impact and change of transition commencing the downswing can be in between frames so you can miss the transition. It's like a normal camera each time you capture a photo the shutter opens and shuts. The same occurs when you slow down peoples swing on video data is missing.
1/2 a frame is a ton of missing information.
Do some research and you will find this to be accurate.
My point is video does have illusions. And hey I put my hand up and say it's caught me out to. People send me video all the time asking me what I think of their swing. Hell I can't tell cause I know the illusions.
Looking at movement patterns video can't tell you the real story.
Daryl maybe on video this is what you see.
Using biomechanics tells a different story.
Say Hi to Ben, I respect Ben Doyle.
Last edited by bioengine : 08-09-2009 at 12:43 PM.
That's their problem as anyone who uses a Hand or Arm Throw. Do it at your own risk.
TGM is about the hands sensing, directing and applying Pivot Forces. ®
To say that Zone 3 can be no better than Zone 1 has become Mantra on this web-site. You work to help people find Zone 1, TGM controls it.
Daryl,
Totally agree with you zone1 first.
Hands first is a poor movement patterns. So these guys who do this need zone1 training.
I think we would both agree on this.
This is why we test people to find out how there body is moving, what sequence are they using.
Then we provide them with a program to train their body how to create the right sequence or movement patterns.
Lag has some movement pattern issues for sure and he can improve his movement patterns.
I provided him an evaluation although we never devised a program for him.
He was more interested in seeing how his body moved in his golfswing. Not fix it or improve on his swing.
He's happy with the way he swings that's fine by me.
If he was interested in improving his patterns I'm happy to assit him.
By all means personally I believe he could improve his movement patterns and sequencing. There are issues there.
I can see your point of view as well about swinging. And if he sorted his movement patterns out he would be a pure swinger for sure.
Lag on his data resorted to hitting to compensate for his movement pattern issues.Which prevented him from being a pure swinger.
Lag develop a swing which worked for him.
He if he's happy so be it.
At the end of the day choose your poision. I measure movement patterns and improve movement ptterns. Geometry well thats your field, you do decided which action someone should employ.
All I do is give people the physics, so you boys can give them the geometry which intergrades to create a beautiful golfswing hitting or swinging.
Daryl,
I get called in by coaches cause there having problems with their players applying geometry. They know there is another issue. We test them to determine ok is it physics or a geometry problem together.If it's Physics or movement pattern issues I give their player a program to create the right movement patterns. Once the player achieves this, the coach can then apply the geometry.
That includes Accumulator and Lag Loading. Stopping the Backstroke with your Pivot (sensors in your feet) ensures that the Transition will be smooth and not jerk around those pressures. The pressures on the feet that halted the Backstroke are the same pressures that begin the Downstroke. That means that the amount of force that the Pivot needs to apply is not a guess. If you want more force, allow the pivot to create more Pressure on #3. It is the job of the Pivot to maintain that pressure at least until both arms are straight in the Follow-through. Everybody adds a little Float Load during the Downswing. That increase gets picked up by the Pivot and so the Speed or sharpness of the Pivot components will adjust to deliver that #3 Pressure to the Follow-Through.
That includes Accumulator and Lag Loading. Stopping the Backstroke with your Pivot (sensors in your feet) ensures that the Transition will be smooth and not jerk around those pressures. The pressures on the feet that halted the Backstroke are the same pressures that begin the Downstroke. That means that the amount of force that the Pivot needs to apply is not a guess. If you want more force, allow the pivot to create more Pressure on #3. It is the job of the Pivot to maintain that pressure at least until both arms are straight in the Follow-through. Everybody adds a little Float Load during the Downswing. That increase gets picked up by the Pivot and so the Speed or sharpness of the Pivot components will adjust to deliver that #3 Pressure to the Follow-Through.
Do you know that impact and change of transition commencing the downswing can be in between frames so you can miss the transition. It's like a normal camera each time you capture a photo the shutter opens and shuts. The same occurs when you slow down peoples swing on video data is missing.
1/2 a frame is a ton of missing information.
Do some research and you will find this to be accurate.
300 fps on a Cassio seems plenty fast to my eye. I never use the higher f rates, though the camera has them.
Remember though that if the camera doesnt have a shutter it isnt frames per second, but rather fields per second. Apples and oranges. Some of the new industrial high speed video cameras like the Vipor actually have a shutter. This whole frame rate thing is really changing quickly .............what used to be a US Army or manufacturing technology is now available to the public in the form of a point and shoot camera. Heck there is even a high speed golf specific camera on a cell phone.
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