Adress/Impact Clubshaft angle and plane shift

[mgolfcz]

Hi all,

in 7-8 FIX is this sentence ...
Impact conditions are not the same as in Address except for clubshaft angle.

Is this sentence true with single plane shift ?

Thanks for your answers.

[Daryl]

Hi all,

in 7-8 FIX is this sentence ...
Impact conditions are not the same as in Address except for clubshaft angle.

Is this sentence true with single plane shift ?

Thanks for your answers.

Yes. If your Clubshaft angle at Impact is on the TSP, then it should be at Address. Your Hands may follow a Plane Shift during the Backstroke without the Primary Lever/Left Arm Wedge Aligned to the Elbow Plane. Then, at the Top, all is prepared by being already Aligned to the TSP for the Downstroke, Release, Impact and Follow-through. It's a simplified procedure.

The Application isn't any different than a Double Shift Player who maintains the Left Arm Wedge Aligned to the Elbow Plane through-out the Stroke (uh oh? Does that sound like Hank Haney?) or a Double Shift Player that steepens the Shaft Plane at the Up-Shift during the Backstroke and then at the Top, re-Flattens the Angle or Flattens the Clubshaft Angle during Start-Down in preparation for the Downstroke Shift to the Elbow Plane. Hazardous Procedures.

Think about his too. It's much easier to return the Shaft to the Address Angle or maintain the Address Angle through-out the Stroke for Short Stroke Procedures.

I've discovered that by using the Right Forearm Take-Away, my Shaft and #3 PP Aligns to the TSP at the End of Start-up regardless of Address Plane Angle. That's very cool for full Strokes but it leaves problems on the Table for short strokes such as with Chipping and Putting. With any and all delicate short Strokes, my shaft at Address is on the same Plane it will be at Impact. It's Imperative.

[KevCarter]

Yes. If your Clubshaft angle at Impact is on the TSP, then it should be at Address. Your Hands may follow a Plane Shift during the Backstroke without the Primary Lever/Left Arm Wedge Aligned to the Elbow Plane. Then, at the Top, all is prepared by being already Aligned to the TSP for the Downstroke, Release, Impact and Follow-through. It's a simplified procedure.

The Application isn't any different than a Double Shift Player who maintains the Left Arm Wedge Aligned to the Elbow Plane through-out the Stroke (uh oh? Does that sound like Hank Haney?) or a Double Shift Player that steepens the Shaft Plane at the Up-Shift during the Backstroke and then at the Top, re-Flattens the Angle or Flattens the Clubshaft Angle during Start-Down in preparation for the Downstroke Shift to the Elbow Plane. Hazardous Procedures.

Think about his too. It's much easier to return the Shaft to the Address Angle or maintain the Address Angle through-out the Stroke for Short Stroke Procedures.

I've discovered that by using the Right Forearm Take-Away, my Shaft and #3 PP Aligns to the TSP at the End of Start-up regardless of Address Plane Angle. That's very cool for full Strokes but it leaves problems on the Table for short strokes such as with Chipping and Putting. With any and all delicate short Strokes, my shaft at Address is on the same Plane it will be at Impact. It's Imperative.

Daryl made a picture about a year ago that has become VERY important to my understanding of the Turned Shoulder Plane. This took me a lot of time studying until I really understood the point... the simplicity of releasing the club on the Turned Shoulder Plane rather than releasing it on the Elbow Plane. Man, just looking at the picture you can see what Homer and Daryl refers to as "Hazardous!"

In my opinion, you can learn a lot about Homer Kelley's plane preferences by studying this...

Kevin



and how to get there using RFT and Extensor Action.



and how your back stroke gets you there.



Thanks DARYL!!!

Kevin

[mgolfcz]

Yes. If your Clubshaft angle at Impact is on the TSP, then it should be at Address. Your Hands may follow a Plane Shift during the Backstroke without the Primary Lever/Left Arm Wedge Aligned to the Elbow Plane. Then, at the Top, all is prepared by being already Aligned to the TSP for the Downstroke, Release, Impact and Follow-through. It's a simplified procedure.

I dont understand this very well. Does it mean that I must move hands first on elbow plane and then rise them, and still maintain shaft on TSP through all this movement?

I start my swing with rfta from address with shaft on elbow plane and hands in impact fix. Then I can feel (from elbow location when I start rising hands) the change of shaft plane (to steeper TSP plane). When I arrive to the top I already have shaft on TSP. That corresponds to single plane shift. I tried rise hands only without changing shaft plane and change shaft plane on the top, but not with success. I tried TSP plane for shaft from address to the top and back to impact, but with this setup I still cannot supply such power as in elbow to TSP shift.

Can I leave (for my full shots) setup with single plane shift with changed shaft plane or focus on zero shift and try build swing and add power after some time ?

[innercityteacher]

I dont understand this very well. Does it mean that I must move hands first on elbow plane and then rise them, and still maintain shaft on TSP through all this movement?

I start my swing with rfta from address with shaft on elbow plane and hands in impact fix. Then I can feel (from elbow location when I start rising hands) the change of shaft plane (to steeper TSP plane). When I arrive to the top I already have shaft on TSP. That corresponds to single plane shift. I tried rise hands only without changing shaft plane and change shaft plane on the top, but not with success. I tried TSP plane for shaft from address to the top and back to impact, but with this setup I still cannot supply such power as in elbow to TSP shift.

Can I leave (for my full shots) setup with single plane shift with changed shaft plane or focus on zero shift and try build swing and add power after some time ?

But I cannot follow this and I am sure it is very important!

If I was Ben Hogan, or VJT, wouldn't I come down on the elbow plane?

If I was interested in the simplicity of TSP, could I do my whole full swing that way?

I understand that it would get complicated on a short swing.

If I'm missing the point here, just say so and I'll read this stuff again, but I don't get it.

Maybe I need to keep reading the original threads?

ICT

[KevCarter]

But I cannot follow this and I am sure it is very important!

If I was Ben Hogan, or VJT, wouldn't I come down on the elbow plane?

If I was interested in the simplicity of TSP, could I do my whole full swing that way?

I understand that it would get complicated on a short swing.

If I'm missing the point here, just say so and I'll read this stuff again, but I don't get it.

Maybe I need to keep reading the original threads?

ICT

Hey Patrick,

Don't make it seem complicated, it's really not. Peek at 12-1 Basic Drive loading. Combine that with a quote from Mr. Kelley in 1982, it's not in the book. I call it:

STARTING OVER WITH G.O.L.F.
HOMER KELLEY

"If I were starting to play golf, this is what I would concentrate on. It's what it all boils down to. It's even simpler than The Triad."

• At Fix, establish your Flat, Level and Vertical Left Wrist and your On Plane Right Forearm Angle of Approach (7-3).

• At Start Up, take your Hands Up, Back, and In on the Plane of your Right Forearm.

• Through Impact, return to the Fix Hand Location and the established Right Forearm Angle of Approach.

From that foundation, focus on the imperatives and essentials while monitoring the pressure points. Sounds simple, and it works for me. I'm not sure yet if this simplicity can totally work in with my teaching, but I believe anyone can master basic hitting no matter what their physical condition. As players get more advanced, they add Power Accumulators until we get to 4 Barrel Hitting.

Very simple, consistent procedure where we all need to start. Modifications to our strokes can and will be made, but in my mind this is the baseline, 12-1.

I don't care what you do, as long as you know how you do it - SIMPLICITY.

Kevin

[Daryl]

I dont understand this very well. Does it mean that I must move hands first on elbow plane and then rise them, and still maintain shaft on TSP through all this movement?

I start my swing with rfta from address with shaft on elbow plane and hands in impact fix. Then I can feel (from elbow location when I start rising hands) the change of shaft plane (to steeper TSP plane). When I arrive to the top I already have shaft on TSP. That corresponds to single plane shift. I tried rise hands only without changing shaft plane and change shaft plane on the top, but not with success. I tried TSP plane for shaft from address to the top and back to impact, but with this setup I still cannot supply such power as in elbow to TSP shift.

Can I leave (for my full shots) setup with single plane shift with changed shaft plane or focus on zero shift and try build swing and add power after some time ?

Well, whatever your shaft angle at address, start up occurs on that angle. Whatever you do with the Shaft Angle from there until Release is up to you. But, at Release, through Impact and Follow-through, your shaft better stay one one plane.

It's a matter of preference and understanding what you're attempting to do. Like I said, I have no problem starting with my shaft on the Elbow Plane and striking the ball on the TSP (with my hands 2" higher at Impact) with full strokes. It's pretty easy to do, really. But on partial strokes and short strokes, the shaft is on the TSP from the very start.

[innercityteacher]

Hey Patrick,

Don't make it seem complicated, it's really not. Peek at 12-1 Basic Drive loading. Combine that with a quote from Mr. Kelley in 1982, it's not in the book. I call it:

STARTING OVER WITH G.O.L.F.
HOMER KELLEY



Very simple, consistent procedure where we all need to start. Modifications to our strokes can and will be made, but in my mind this is the baseline, 12-1.



Kevin

Thanks Kevin and Daryl. I am simply fried from work. It's not you! It's me!!!

Anyway, the unified theory of bio-mechanics and geometry is so unified that there are no rabbit trails when building on that foundation! There are just a more complete list of components.

(Did you hear/see Sean Foley on TGC talk about "bio-mechanics, planer geometry, and the ball leaving the face at "about 90 degrees?")

So let me see if I can get some foundation.

This video shows Brian Gay hitting on TSP from start to finish, right?


This next video shows Ben Hogan starting on TSP then moving and staying on BEP (Bent Elbow Plane) through impact?

Does VJ do a double -shift here, TSP, BEP, TSP?

ICT