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Aiming point for a swinger

Emergency Room - Swingers

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  #11  
Old 11-24-2008, 07:00 PM
Bigwill Bigwill is offline
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
Pull it is - if the left arm is almost useless in the stroke then I assume we must pull with the right side and arm?
'Almost' is the key word in your post. The left arm is a component of PP4, and so aids in transferring power from the pivot to the club. While actual left arm muscle power may not be very helpful in a good swing, the feel of pulling with the left is something different, and very much a viable option.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2008, 08:14 PM
mb6606 mb6606 is offline
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From Homer's audio tapes:
"The left arm is almost useless except as accumulator #4 in pivot strokes. The release comes as the left arm leaves the chest".

What does Homer mean here? Pivot controlled hands strokes? Or simply swinging? All full power strokes use the pivot which would seem to indicate he ws talking about pivot controlled hands.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2008, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
From Homer's audio tapes:
"The left arm is almost useless except as accumulator #4 in pivot strokes. The release comes as the left arm leaves the chest".

What does Homer mean here? Pivot controlled hands strokes? Or simply swinging? All full power strokes use the pivot which would seem to indicate he ws talking about pivot controlled hands.
Here's a big thing the #4 Accumulator is the MASTER ACCUMULATOR . . . period. Accumulators HAVE TO RELEASE and if #4 doesn't release your hands are going to either go UNDER plane or OVER plane depending on what your shoulders do (roundhouse or bob) . . . the release sequence is 4,1,2,3 regardless of procedure (swinging or hitting) regardless of pivot stroke or non-pivot stroke. So if you don't release #4 . . . . you will have a plane shift.
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:37 PM
mb6606 mb6606 is offline
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What did Homer mean by "MASTER ACCUMULATOR"?

How does the #4 release? By an active left arm? or the rotation of the right side?

In other words is it a left side Frisbee throw or the right side two handed basketball throw (Ben Hogan 5 Lessons)?

Last edited by mb6606 : 11-24-2008 at 11:40 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2008, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
What did Homer mean by "MASTER ACCUMULATOR"?

How does the #4 release? By an active left arm? or the rotation of the right side?

In other words is it a left side Frisbee throw or the right side two handed basketball throw (Ben Hogan 5 Lessons)?
The angle formed by the Left Arm and Left Shoulder forms the Forth Power Accumulator. It is not only an independent Power Accumulator, but its Triggering function as the Checkrein of the Right Elbow is also vastly important and it thus can be the Accumulator of the Accumulators – or Master Accumulator. Also see 2-M-4.

As Accumulator #4 it is Pivot (Body) Power supplying the initial acceleration of the Downstroke to throw the Lever Assemblies toward Impact by the Thrust of the Shoulder Turn. See 7-13. Another major contribution to Impact Power is geometric – it is the first link in the Swing Radius power train between the Club and the Feet.

“Left Arm Power” in any form or amount can still be considered #4 Accumulator Action. Otherwise it actually substitutes for the Pivot to introduce the circular motion required to produce Centrifugal Force.

RADIUS POWER

6-B-4-A MAXIMUM POWER is obtained by using maximum On Plane Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4 per 7-19, and maximum Swing Radius (6-B-0).

6-B-4-B ZERO ACCUMULATION is either no Shoulder Turn or the use of Accumulator #1 alone for actuating the Primary Lever Assembly.

6-B-4-C MAXIMUM TRIGGER DELAY is achieved by using either the Standard or Delayed Pivot (to increase the Lag of the Downstroke Shoulder Turn) with a Snap Loading Action (per 7-19-3 and 10-22-C) followed by a Snap Release (10-24-E) with a Pitch Basic Stroke (10-3-B). For Hitters the essential difference is that Loading is per 7-19-1.


It's the Master Accumulator in that if it doesn't release (4,1,2,3) then nothing else does . . . If you go to the top and don't release your left arm down your chest then you have to do something weird with your pivot to actually get your hands down to hit the ball. It can cause a bob or it can cause roundhousing. #1 and #4 are connected via the checkrein . . . . so if you hang on to the #4 angle then the right elbow doesn't release either. You can get that whole "navel seeking elbow" deal and lots of other issues as a result.

The release of #4 is huge in keeping the club on plane . . . . if you don't release it you have to monkey with the shoulder plane which in turn will throw the hands either under plane or over plane.
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket View Post
The angle formed by the Left Arm and Left Shoulder forms the Forth Power Accumulator. It is not only an independent Power Accumulator, but its Triggering function as the Checkrein of the Right Elbow is also vastly important and it thus can be the Accumulator of the Accumulators – or Master Accumulator. Also see 2-M-4.

As Accumulator #4 it is Pivot (Body) Power supplying the initial acceleration of the Downstroke to throw the Lever Assemblies toward Impact by the Thrust of the Shoulder Turn. See 7-13. Another major contribution to Impact Power is geometric – it is the first link in the Swing Radius power train between the Club and the Feet.

“Left Arm Power” in any form or amount can still be considered #4 Accumulator Action. Otherwise it actually substitutes for the Pivot to introduce the circular motion required to produce Centrifugal Force.

RADIUS POWER

6-B-4-A MAXIMUM POWER is obtained by using maximum On Plane Shoulder Turn Thrust against Pressure Point #4 per 7-19, and maximum Swing Radius (6-B-0).

6-B-4-B ZERO ACCUMULATION is either no Shoulder Turn or the use of Accumulator #1 alone for actuating the Primary Lever Assembly.

6-B-4-C MAXIMUM TRIGGER DELAY is achieved by using either the Standard or Delayed Pivot (to increase the Lag of the Downstroke Shoulder Turn) with a Snap Loading Action (per 7-19-3 and 10-22-C) followed by a Snap Release (10-24-E) with a Pitch Basic Stroke (10-3-B). For Hitters the essential difference is that Loading is per 7-19-1.


.
Oooohhhhhhh........

I just love it when you do like this......
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:31 AM
mb6606 mb6606 is offline
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Great post Bucket a lot of good info.
How in the heck could VJ Singh practice with the glove under the #4 and still make decent contact?
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  #18  
Old 11-25-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
Great post Bucket a lot of good info.
How in the heck could VJ Singh practice with the glove under the #4 and still make decent contact?
In the Alignment Golf DVD Lynn and V.J. Trolio speak about this. VJ then puts a towel under his arm, swings through follow through with the towel intact. Moving to finish the #4 accumulator blasts off, and the towel falls to the ground. Lynn says that is the first time he has seen that drill done properly. Is that what you mean?

Please go easy on me, rookie trying to learn.

Kevin
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  #19  
Old 11-25-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
Great post Bucket a lot of good info.
How in the heck could VJ Singh practice with the glove under the #4 and still make decent contact?


I think actually that is a kinda misunderstood deal . . . .watch this swing vision . . . there's no question that he's releasing #4 . . . . he releases it as fast as anybody in the game really . . . watch anybody on tour with "high hands" at the top . . . . gotta release #4 fast basically due to the distance they are from the ball comparitively . . . Furyk . . . Sergio . . . really fast.

So you can probably stick that glove in there and still move your arm . . . .what you don't want to do is just spin into the glove and "pin" the left arm so it doesn't move. He's just trying to move his arms close to his body.

Here's me NOT releasing #4 fast enough . . . . note how much farther my hands are away from me . . . . causes me to have to lose #3 angle through the ball . . . . fleating clubface alignments . . . Result of an improper startdown . . . . shoulders spinning into the arm and throwing it out rather than downplane . . . . so the radius is disrupted.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=5739
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 11-25-2008 at 11:18 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-25-2008, 12:00 PM
Jeff Jeff is offline
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One comment on the release of PA#4.

When one thinks of the purpose of releasing PA#4 in a swinger's action, the purpose is to get the left arm moving at a certain speed in the downswing. If the left arm moves at a certain speed, and PA#2 and PA#3 release efficiently then one has a perfect swinger's action from a power perspective.

Now, consider the timing of the release of PA#4. If one has an assertive right shoulder thrust turn at the start of the downswing, with a rapid shoulder deceleration pattern, then the left arm will leave the chest wall at an early point in the downswing. That can be seen in that posted video of VJ Singh's swing.

By contrast, Hardy OPS golfers are encouraged to turn their torso very aggressively at the start of the downswing and to ABT (always be turning). They therefore do not have the upper torso deceleratory pattern seen in VJ Singh's swing, and therefore their left arm remains in contact with the chest wall for much longer during the downswing. However, they hit the ball very well because their left arm travels at an appropriate speed during the downswing, and they release their PA#2/3 well.

Here is link to an excellent Hardy OPS golfer - Jeff Ritter.



Here are series of capture images of his downswing, which demonstrate that his left arm-chest wall angle remains acute until very late in his downswing - due to his very active shoulder rotation. Note where his right shoulder is situated in image 3 and compare it to VJ Singh's swing. There is a huge difference.



I think that the time point of PA#4 release depends on the pivot motion pattern and different golfers have different PA#4 release patterns (eg. equivalent to a sweep, random, or late release of PA#2).

Jeff.
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