I posted earlier tonight in the Basic forum about how I'm trying to HIt. I'm getting good results when I FEEL that the right elbow is leading the downswing into impact. After reading your post, am I right in saying what I feel is the right elbow coming down the "elbow plane". Then as I approach impact I've been feeling that I drive PP#1, and to me the inside portion of the forearm with a bent and level right wrist, at my aiming point? Does this sound like I'm "Getting" it?
The driving action in right arm swinging or true hitting comes from the right forearm....per 1-F. The triceps supply muscle power but the trigger is the right forearm. I guarantee you, if you start focusing on your triceps to drive the club through impact you will eventually create a condition of automatic clubhead throwaway and generate flat golf shots....no power!!! IF you don't believe me....let her rip with tricep thrust. I believe you will not find one phrase in the book that says right tricep thrust.....you will find right tricep muscle power and right tricep speed....all thrusting comments are exclusively right forearm....just checkout section 7-3....right forearm thrust is mentioned and no where will you find right tricep thrust or a driving right tricep.
That's why section 10-20 is called trigger types...something has to trigger the release of the power package!!!
DG
The following six points may help those Incubating this issue:
1. The Right Triceps is useless without the Right Forearm. And vice versa.
2. Nowhere in The Golfing Machine does Homer Kelley suggest that the Golfer use the Right Triceps consciously to produce the Major Basic Strokes. Instead, he uses the Magic of the Right Forearm and Elbow.
3. The Golfer also uses the Right Forearm to monitor the "dynamically in-line" On Plane Feel (2-F) and the Three-Dimensional Tracing of the Straight Plane Line (2-N-O).
4. While the six published editions of TGM do not contain the exact wording Right Triceps Thrust, the intent is clear. That intent is made certain in the unpublished 7th edition's revision to page 38. A new Paragraph Three reads as follows and should be written into your Book:
"Power package Muscle Power is almost entirely Right Triceps Thrust straightening the Right Elbow to furnish both Extensor Action and #1 Accumulator Power."
5. Awareness of an Active Right Arm is achieved only through monitoring an Active Right Elbow (7-20).
6. The Hitter's fundamental Release Trigger is the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). This pure Right Arm Push cannot be accomplished except by the Right Triceps and its instrument, the Right Forearm, and it cannot be monitored except through an awareness of an Active Right Elbow.
6. The Hitter's fundamental Release Trigger is the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). This pure Right Arm Push cannot be accomplished except by the Right Triceps and its instrument, the Right Forearm, and it cannot be monitored except through an awareness of an Active Right Elbow.
Yoda,
Can you clarify what Homer means by "Right Triceps and its instrument, the Right Forearm"....really, what does he mean by "instrument" that is gray terminology. TGM confuser terminology, only the writer can understand!!! It's a shame that Homer didn't recognized some of the subtle and in some cases major points of confusion that could have easily been identified with an asterisk next to the term and defined at the bottom of each page, this is a perfect example of one confusing term.
I think the right tricep thrust comment is potentially dangerous, just like the comment "a rotating downstroke body motion" (10-19-0) for swingers was bad news in the 5th edition. It's a shame this comment of right tricep thrust might confuse a number of readers, because up until the 7th edtion you only had right forearm thrust, now you will have both.
ok, then the muscles of the right forearm trigger the thrusting action of the right triceps....it's just semantics at this point. The body hasn't changed between 1983 and 2005.
The thought in the golfers mind should be in the muscles of his or her right forearm driving the right arm to a long right arm post impact. As Tomasello said....you should have the feeling the club is pulling you, drive that right arm (right forearm).
As Tiger said Hogan and Norman owned their swings....I definitely feel I own the understanding what should be the focus in "generating" right arm power....I experimented twice over a ten year span what should drive or thrust the right arm through impact.....the muscles of right forearm should be the golfers focus, the muscles of the right tricep will do their thrusting action in response to the action of the right forearm. And, the comment of the 7-3 proves it...."THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM", its not the magic of the right triceps....
I believe this comment still stands....the right forearm tiggers the release of the right elbow "allowing" the right triceps to apply their natural muscle power.
So, the right forearm traces the plane line, drives the power package to the release point (for hitters and right arm swingers), and triggers the release of the right elbow for non-automatic strokes.
And with that, I leave you with this last comment...right arm swingers are not switters. I would only call true swingers trying incorporate some kind of right arm power as switters. The right arm swing when properly executed should reside with the "true" swinging family or category!!!
DG
Whoa, DG. Ease off, my man!
First of all, regarding the word instrument, it was mine, not Homer's, so he's off the hook on this one.
And, just checking my Webster, the first definition is:
Instrument: a thing by means of which something is done.
So, the Forearm is the means by which the Right Triceps does its Pushing work. I had already stated that truism in Item #1 of my post, and I see nothing controversial about it. If you can find a way to make your Right Triceps functional without the use of your Right Elbow and Forearm -- or vice versa -- then you're operating with different machinery than the rest of us! But, aren't you saying the same thing, i.e., that the Right Forearm is the Golfer's means of 'taking care of business?' For the life of me, I can't see the problem here.
Regarding the Golfer's Feel localizing in the Right Elbow and Forearm (as opposed to in the originating Right Triceps) I don't think I could have been in more explicit agreement: Of course we Feel the Motion there.
Look, I just reached for my coffee cup, and without a second thought:
1. My Right Hand had an assignment;
2. The Shoulder Deltoid took care of the initial Transportation of the Arm and Hand; and
3. My Right Triceps finished the job with an extension of the Right Elbow.
Aaahh...
Love that Starbucks!
Finally, I have no problem with the Right Arm Swing. It is a bona fide catalogued TGM procedure practiced by many. Further, I have never labeled its proponents as Switters.
Now, they may get a twinge in their Elbow now and again and have to hustle down to the nearest CVS for an arm band....
Oh oh. Shouldn't have said that...
INCOMING!!!
Just kidding, Dave.
Homer Kelley thought the Right Arm Swing was "a beautiful procedure." I'll dig out some audio over the next couple of weeks and see if we can't get it up on the site. Thanks for your passion on this subject and keep it burning.
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 91
Location: Pinehurst, NC
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject:
D.G.
Not exactly. The trail arm does straighten either actively or passively, but only after it is carried downplane to the release point. If the right triceps were activated from the top, you would experience throwout immediately along with the corresponding loss of lag...ugh! The point is that the trail forearm can only be thrown or driven The muscles of the forearm can only assist in squeezing and turning and are incapable of thrusting on their own.
When did I say the right forearm acts on it's own....please reread my post....I think you glazed over it. Really folks, I do not have to think about the right triceps at all, I just feel there power... I know they will respond to the action of the right forearm and the rotational action of the pivot.
Hey Yoda,
I enjoyed reading your six points....I was just a little confused about the "instrument" comment (never saw that comment before!!!!)..remember I have been reading the machine for 14 years....new terminology that appears to be of the gray sort errrkkksss me.
I enjoyed reading your six points....I was just a little confused about the "instrument" comment (never saw that comment before!!!!)..remember I have been reading the machine for 14 years....new terminology that appears to be of the gray sort errrkkksss me.
DG
Understood, DG. However appropriate, it did sound a little 'Jim Flick-ish."
Been reading the 'big three' forums and I must say these are an absolutley invaluable source for learning! Thanks to all. The fog is gently lifting for this disciple.
My question: why is the right arm swinger more susceptible to elbow pain than the true left arm swinger and right arm hitter?
I have been right arm swinging for a solid year with weighted club practice, no pain....you will experience pain if you try to incorporate downstroke loading by trying to increase right elbow bend. So, stay away from downstroke loading, simple as that....
Been reading the 'big three' forums and I must say these are an absolutley invaluable source for learning! Thanks to all. The fog is gently lifting for this disciple.
My question: why is the right arm swinger more susceptible to elbow pain than the true left arm swinger and right arm hitter?
Good question, rrabick. Thanks! You are an inspiration to the many who 'lurk' but do not post: Remember, to get your questions answered, you have only to ask! We are here to supply! So, step forth from that "gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." Join us here in the Arena! Post!
To your question, rrabick:
Right Arm Swingers are more susceptible to Elbow pain because they have transferred the Center of their Stroke from the Left Shoulder to the Right Elbow. And Swinging from the Right Elbow puts a strain on the ligaments that is not present in the Straight Line Piston Action the Right Elbow makes in Left Arm Swinging or Right Arm Hitting. So, if you've got a pain in the Right Elbow, stop Swinging that Right Arm, and learn to Drive it instead.
Left Arm Swingers can experience a similar Left Elbow problem if they attempt to Pull violently from the Top using Left Arm Muscle Power. That is because the Left Arm can only apply its Power backhanded, and its muscles therefore can make only a feeble contribution to the Stroke. If you attempt to use 'will' power to force the issue, you invite trouble. True Left Arm Power lies in its function as the Stroke Radius. And that Stroke Radius is not driven by the Left Arm itself, but by the Momentum Transfer of the Turning Body.
So, if you've got pain in your Left Elbow, stop pulling so hard with that Left Arm. Instead, learn to accelerate it with your Pivot. Not only will you hit the ball much further and with more accuracy, you'll also be able to trash that arm band.
Left Arm Swingers can experience a similar Left Elbow problem if they attempt to Pull violently from the Top using Left Arm Muscle Power. That is because the Left Arm can only apply its Power backhanded, and its muscles therefore can make only a feeble contribution to the Stroke. If you attempt to use 'will' power to force the issue, you invite trouble. True Left Arm Power lies in its function as the Stroke Radius. And that Stroke Radius is not driven by the Left Arm itself, but by the Momentum Transfer of the Turning Body.
So, if you've got pain in your Left Elbow, stop pulling so hard with that Left Arm. Instead, learn to accelerate it with your Pivot. Not only will you hit the ball much further and with more accuracy, you'll also be able to trash that arm band.
Hi Lynn,
After the requisite hip slide, what should one feel 'moves' next? I know for a Swinger, it should be a 'pull' of some kind. But in this post, you appear to say that pulling with the left arm is a no-no. Should it be a right shoulder thrust with the hands aiming? This should be clear to me by now, but every time I think "hey, I've got it" something like this will surface and make me wonder.
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