AND if we are assuming a 10-2-D grip, the Right Wrist Bend and Right Forearm are NOT AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE LEFT ARM PLANE.
Not so fast there, Colonel. The 10-2-D Grip mandates only a Turned Left Wrist. The Right Wrist remains Vertical and the precision alignments of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge remain intact.
Further, the Turned Left Wrist does not negate the true Plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge, i.e., the Vertical Plane of the Left Wristcock Motion. The only difference from the Vertical Left Wrist version is that the Turned Left Wrist (cocked in a Vertical Plane) will produce a Double Wristcock. That is, the Left Wrist not only Cocks, it also Bends.
And the Right Forearm Flying Wedge is indeed placed perpendicular to this Plane of the Left Wrist Double-Cock Motion.
Here's a quick reminder guys: Homer said that a Strong Single Action Grip (10-2-B, Left Wrist Vertical, not Turned) is mandatory throughout the Basic Curriculum for G.O.L.F. If you're not sure whether to make the change...take the hint!
Originally Posted by mabramb
Also does gripping the club vertically mean zero acuumulator #3 angle? Would a vertical left wrist be something I should take on learning? You can probably summize that I stregthened my grip years ago because of fundamental flaws in my swing anyhoo.
To understand what Vertical means, look at photo in 4-C-1. If you extend your Left Arm straight in front of yourself, parallel to the ground with fingers extended, you will end up looking like 4-C-1. Now without Turning or Rolling your Left Wrist, lower your arm into a more golf-like position. Maintaining this Vertical position of your Left Wrist, you can place the club in the cup of your Left Hand (for minimal Accumulator 3, typically used for putting) or the heel pad of your Left Hand ('normal' amount of Accumulator #3). Therefore, using a 10-2-B Grip does not necessarily equate to zero Accumulator #3.
Now I believe part of your confusion is this. You think Accumulator #3 application is Rolling the Left Wrist through Impact, which is true (kind of). Hence you think having a Vertical Left Wrist means Zero Accumulator #3. Am I on barking up the wrong tree? If not, I will further clarify your confusion upon request.
Here's a quick reminder guys: Homer said that a Strong Single Action Grip (10-2-B, Left Wrist Vertical, not Turned) is mandatory throughout the Basic Curriculum for G.O.L.F. If you're not sure whether to make the change...take the hint!
To understand what Vertical means, look at photo in 4-C-1. If you extend your Left Arm straight in front of yourself, parallel to the ground with fingers extended, you will end up looking like 4-C-1. Now without Turning or Rolling your Left Wrist, lower your arm into a more golf-like position. Maintaining this Vertical position of your Left Wrist, you can place the club in the cup of your Left Hand (for minimal Accumulator 3, typically used for putting) or the heel pad of your Left Hand ('normal' amount of Accumulator #3). Therefore, using a 10-2-B Grip does not necessarily equate to zero Accumulator #3.
Now I believe part of your confusion is this. You think Accumulator #3 application is Rolling the Left Wrist through Impact, which is true (kind of). Hence you think having a Vertical Left Wrist means Zero Accumulator #3. Am I on barking up the wrong tree? If not, I will further clarify your confusion upon request.
Thank you. I looked up the references you were pointing to and got clear on the matter. What I was asking about Acc. #3 had to do with the wrist being "bent or rolled" in order to take what I term as a "strong" grip, which it does. And since one of the basic fundamentals of this golf theory requires no bending of the left wrist (ideal scenario) to have all the components work together, on plane, I am going to take on learning the 10-2-B grip.
I started out playing golf seven years ago with what is termed a vertical grip (or "weak" grip in non-G.O.L.F. terms) and my wrist always felt weak and vulnerable to injury because of many mishits. So basically I changed to a strong grip (I believe what I do would be more like 10-2-D) because of that and due to poor quality of impact (ball contact).
I also noticed that I define my down swing plane by my left shoulder and from something I read today in the book the right shoulder defines the plane and the left arm and shoulder are never on plane (is that correct?. The TGM book is difficult to understand and there are so many sections that contain references to other sections that it seems like it would take a day to just read one section and all it's references... but with the help of all of you that have been playing, learning and teaching this technology, I feel as though I've learned more about the golf swing in one month then the other 6 years and 11 months that I've endeavored to do so.
What you guys do here and who you are all being is extraordinary and I want to let you know that it is appreciated and it makes a difference.
Not so fast there, Colonel. The 10-2-D Grip mandates only a Turned Left Wrist. The Right Wrist remains Vertical and the precision alignments of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge remain intact.
Further, the Turned Left Wrist does not negate the true Plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge, i.e., the Vertical Plane of the Left Wristcock Motion. The only difference from the Vertical Left Wrist version is that the Turned Left Wrist (cocked in a Vertical Plane) will produce a Double Wristcock. That is, the Left Wrist not only Cocks, it also Bends.
And the Right Forearm Flying Wedge is indeed placed perpendicular to this Plane of the Left Wrist Double-Cock Motion.
Woops misunderstood that . . . I thought that the Right Forearm needed to at 90 degrees to the VERTICAL FLAT LEFT WRIST. Learning something here.
Why is 10-2-D release motion considered "throwing the Clubface at the ball?" Don't understand this . . . What does he mean?
I'm trying to reconcile these to quotes:
4-D-0 RELEASE MOTIONS . . . Normally, Uncocking is a function of the Wrists actuating the Clubhead (4-B). See 5-0 and 7-11. It has nothing to do with Clubface alignment at Impact – that is the function of the Hands, executing a Clubface Motion (4-C) – Accumulator #3 (2-G). Whenever the Wrist Motion (instead of Hand Motion) throws the Clubface at the ball, there will be Steering and Clubhead Throwaway.
AND
10-2-D STRONG DOUBLE ACTION . . . This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads.
So 10-2-D grip Throws the CLUBFACE at the ball which sounds like a BAD thing pe 4-D-0. But then he says that 10-2-D provides strong support for acceleration and impact loads.
Just what is throwing the clubface at the ball . . . is good or bad or both?
Thanks!
Colonel B
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 12-06-2005 at 05:06 PM.
I started out playing golf seven years ago with what is termed a vertical grip (or "weak" grip in non-G.O.L.F. terms) and my wrist always felt weak and vulnerable to injury because of many mishits. So basically I changed to a strong grip (I believe what I do would be more like 10-2-D) because of that and due to poor quality of impact (ball contact).
The 10-2-B Grip may not be as weak as you think.
Do this again: Extend your Left Arm straight in front of yourself, parallel to the ground with fingers extended, you will end up looking like 4-C-1. Now keeping your Left Wrist Vertical and your Left Arm parallel to the ground, swing the whole of your Left Arm about six inches to your right (just like a door). Without changing anything from this position, drop your Left Arm into a golf-like like position. Important: Note how your Left Wrist seems to be slightly Turned! In fact, it's perfectly Vertical! It's Vertical to the Horizontal Plane.
Another point. Following directly from above, keeping the same alignments, place a club into the heel pad of your left hand. If you did everything correctly, your fingers should still be extended. Now if you wrap your fingers around the grip, notice how the Left Wrist looks very slightly more turned!
Yet another point. If you place your left thumb slightly to the right of centre of grip as per last paragraph of 10-2-0 ("aft"), as you wrap your fingers around the grip, your left wrist will look more turned than if you placed your left thumb in the convential centre line position.
Great post, Tong. It took me several years in TGM -- and many weak, 'dying quail' Golf Shots -- to grasp this truth.
Here's one more way to get the idea across. With your Left Hand, pick up a bottle of water, take a sip and then lower it in front of you until your left forearm is parallel to the ground. Take a look at your Left Wrist: It is Vertical. Grip a Golf Club the same way, and you're in business.
Woops misunderstood that . . . I thought that the Right Forearm needed to at 90 degrees to the VERTICAL FLAT LEFT WRIST. Learning something here.
Why is 10-2-D release motion considered "throwing the Clubface at the ball?" Don't understand this . . . What does he mean?
I'm trying to reconcile these to quotes:
4-D-0 RELEASE MOTIONS . . . Normally, Uncocking is a function of the Wrists actuating the Clubhead (4-B). See 5-0 and 7-11. It has nothing to do with Clubface alignment at Impact – that is the function of the Hands, executing a Clubface Motion (4-C) – Accumulator #3 (2-G). Whenever the Wrist Motion (instead of Hand Motion) throws the Clubface at the ball, there will be Steering and Clubhead Throwaway.
AND
10-2-D STRONG DOUBLE ACTION . . . This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads.
So 10-2-D grip Throws the CLUBFACE at the ball which sounds like a BAD thing pe 4-D-0. But then he says that 10-2-D provides strong support for acceleration and impact loads.
Just what is throwing the clubface at the ball . . . is good or bad or both?
Thanks!
Colonel B
I'll have a go at this, but I'm a non-expert so may be wrong...
With 10-2-D the turned left wrist mean that wrist cock is on plane without a swivel first, so uncocking the left wrist will throw not only the cubhead, but also the clubface at the ball. But with a strong single action grip and standard wrist action, one swivels then cocks, so the clubface turns away from the ball. In that case the uncocking of the left wrist only throws the clubhead at the ball - the clubface still has to roll into the ball - attempting to throw the clubface at the ball from this position (as well as the clubhead) results in a breakdown of the left wrist.
Basically with 10-2-D you can use a sort of hammering (uncocking) motion of the left wrist to hammer the clubhead and face into the ball because the clubface is perpendicular to the plane of the left wrist cock.
I'll have a go at this, but I'm a non-expert so may be wrong...
With 10-2-D the turned left wrist mean that wrist cock is on plane without a swivel first, so uncocking the left wrist will throw not only the cubhead, but also the clubface at the ball. But with a strong single action grip and standard wrist action, one swivels then cocks, so the clubface turns away from the ball. In that case the uncocking of the left wrist only throws the clubhead at the ball - the clubface still has to roll into the ball - attempting to throw the clubface at the ball from this position (as well as the clubhead) results in a breakdown of the left wrist.
Basically with 10-2-D you can use a sort of hammering (uncocking) motion of the left wrist to hammer the clubhead and face into the ball because the clubface is perpendicular to the plane of the left wrist cock.
Hope this helps.
Chris
Thanks Chris! Very good analysis! Sounded pretty "expert" to me. That is kind of the same thing I was thinking. Since the Left Hand is TURNED there is no need for Start Up Swivel in Swinging as you point out.
To me it would also stand to reason that any Release Swivel coulc be disasterous guaranteeing that the Clubface hit the OUTSIDE quadrant of the ball. FORE LEFT!!!!!
As far as the HAMMERING motion, with the "preferred" 10-2-B grip, the HAMMERING is a VERTICAL hammer. But with 10-2-D would the HAMMERING be a bit more "side armed" or "angled"? During Impact and Separation the Left Hand would still be TURNED and not ROLLED to maintained the prescribed PADDLEWHEEL motion?
Do this again: Extend your Left Arm straight in front of yourself, parallel to the ground with fingers extended, you will end up looking like 4-C-1. Now keeping your Left Wrist Vertical and your Left Arm parallel to the ground, swing the whole of your Left Arm about six inches to your right (just like a door). Without changing anything from this position, drop your Left Arm into a golf-like like position. Important: Note how your Left Wrist seems to be slightly Turned! In fact, it's perfectly Vertical! It's Vertical to the Horizontal Plane.
Tong Mr.K would be proud! Another stellar post! Moving the hands on the Horizontal Plane the dropping down to the Inclined Plane . . . Hello Dual Horizontal Hinge Motion.
Why is 10-2-D release motion considered "throwing the Clubface at the ball?" Don't understand this . . . What does he mean?
I'm trying to reconcile these to quotes:
4-D-0 RELEASE MOTIONS . . . Normally, Uncocking is a function of the Wrists actuating the Clubhead (4-B). See 5-0 and 7-11. It has nothing to do with Clubface alignment at Impact – that is the function of the Hands, executing a Clubface Motion (4-C) – Accumulator #3 (2-G). Whenever the Wrist Motion (instead of Hand Motion) throws the Clubface at the ball, there will be Steering and Clubhead Throwaway.
AND
10-2-D STRONG DOUBLE ACTION . . . This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads.
So 10-2-D grip Throws the CLUBFACE at the ball which sounds like a BAD thing pe 4-D-0. But then he says that 10-2-D provides strong support for acceleration and impact loads.
Just what is throwing the clubface at the ball . . . is good or bad or both?
Colonel,
Put a 10-2-D Grip -- Left Wrist Turned On Plane -- on a hammer whose head faces to the left. Then, drive a nail into a wall on your left. That is 'Throwing the Clubface at the Ball'. And it's a good thing. In fact, if you've got a 10-2-D Grip, it's the only thing! Through Impact, there is only Uncocking (Wrist Motion) and zero Roll (Hand Motion).
The quote from 4-D-0 (Release Motions) assumes the 10-2-B Grip (Left Wrist Vertical to the ground). Unlike the Release Motion required by the 10-2-D Grip (Wrist Motion only), the On Plane Uncocking of the Left Wrist (Wrist Motion) must be followed by the Roll of the #3 Accumulator Angle (Hand Motion). This Sequenced Release simultaneously returns the Left Wrist to Vertical and Squares the Clubface.
To alternatively square the Clubface by 'throwing' the Club past a Bending Left Wrist -- a Horizontal Wrist Motion -- is as disastrous as it is common. This is a different 'throw' -- ThrowAWAY! -- and it is far different than the Swinger's Release Wrist Throw (a Perpendicular Wrist Motion).
Linear Mode
