As we discuss Homer Kelley's Tripod concept, it is interesting to note that Ben Hogan had one, too. He wrote about it in his book, Power Golf:
"When I have taken up what I consider the ideal position for hitting a golf ball, I feel as though I were a tripod with my two feet and the clubhead as the three points of contact with the ground."
"While that is the best comparison I can think of to describe my position at the ball, it isn't entirely correct. The weight of a tripod is evenly distributed between its three points of contact with the ground, but in the ideal position at the ball the weight is evenly distributed between both feet."
"None of your weight should rest on the clubhead point of contact. That will be true if the weight is back though the heel as it should be. You should never feel that the weight is forward on your feet if you have taken up the correct position."
While this concept is not the same as Homer's, it does support another very important TGM concept, namely, Foot Loading at Address. The loading should be "an even distribution [of the weight] between both Feet but with enough on the heels to allow the toes to be lifted momentarily without altering the distribution between the toe and heel" (7-17). This was controversial at the time, because Golf Digest and the very high profile instructors at their schools were promoting a loading toward the balls of the feet. Their example was always the baseball player positioned to move either way. Of course, these players are not counterbalancing the pull of centrifugal force, either!
Anyway, I find all this fascinating. As with books on investing in the stock market, some of the best on golf are also the oldest. It's a Back to the Future kind of thing.
We've had a lot of discussion about what Brian and Lynn teach or prefer and what Homer wrote about regarding the 2 pivot centers.
I really need someone to explain and show me the difference between the base of the neck or the head being the centers of the pivot.
I kind of get the "head" - everything turns below it while the head remains stationary.
I don't get the "base of neck". My head is attached to the base of the neck and I don't know how to seperate them, I'm not convinced it can be done physically.
I'm assuming we are simply talking about a "feel" here and not a true physical difference in the two pivots. If there is a true difference then I'd like to see it.
We've had a lot of discussion about what Brian and Lynn teach or prefer and what Homer wrote about regarding the 2 pivot centers.
I really need someone to explain and show me the difference between the base of the neck or the head being the centers of the pivot.
I kind of get the "head" - everything turns below it while the head remains stationary.
I don't get the "base of neck". My head is attached to the base of the neck and I don't know how to seperate them, I'm not convinced it can be done physically.
I'm assuming we are simply talking about a "feel" here and not a true physical difference in the two pivots. If there is a true difference then I'd like to see it.
You are asking some of the same questions I have. That is why I asked about movement regarding the head when neck is used, etc.
Right now Yoda has me digging on this tripod concept.
I was hoping Brian would come in and answer the questions I asked regarding the neck as the stationary pivot center.
c. Tripod gives the indication of 3 supporting points required. Having the third point lie between the other two doesn't meet the criteria for a tripod.
With his words "precisely between the feet," I believe Homer was talking about a face-on view, not down-the-line. The Waist Bend locates the Head outside the vertical plane of the Feet. The hinge pin through the Head to the ground would establish the "three supporting points" you mention.
My own 'Isoceles Triangle' concept uses the triangle as the geometric figure describing the relationship of the centered Head to the Feet. It is not a graphic representation of the Tripod itself.
With his words "precisely between the feet," I believe Homer was talking about a face-on view, not down-the-line. The Waist Bend locates the Head outside the vertical plane of the Feet. The hinge pin through the Head to the ground would establish the "three supporting points" you mention.
My own 'Isoceles Triangle' concept uses the triangle as the geometric figure describing the relationship of the centered Head to the Feet. It is not a graphic representation of the Tripod itself.
If I am visualizing this correctly, the hinge pin throug the head, nah, I am not.
What I was visualizing was the the hinge pin from the head down through the spine. This can't be cause the hip motion (shifting and possible turning) would move that line, saying it started in the center, it certainly would be their at impact.
Maybe the Hogan concept is more accurate and in line with what Homer was leaning too. After all Hogan didn't say it had to support weight, merely make contact with the ground.
I think the last statement is important because I gathered a number of readers were seeing the triangle as the tripod. A sidenote, one of the pictures in one of the thread on this topic that was using the triangle, failed to take into account the slope or camera angle and cause the apex of the triangle to be placed outside the head. I am still working through this with the triangle and effect the stance width has on it with regards to its relationship to the ball position. Also this would seem to define a limit or a check point for when the hip slide goes beyond a certain point as it would move the apex cause of the shortening of the right side and axis tilt.
Still very rough..
So the visualization I should have would be
a. A line from the left foot/leg to the base of the skull
b. A line from the right foot/leg to the base of the skull
c. A line from the base of the skull ???? (This is the hinge, it rotates around the spine, so does it follow the spine?)
Sorry for being so dense on this and a pain...
Edited
L1, L2 or L3(The Hogan Concept)? or should I toss this and start all over again in search of the third leg?
What I was visualizing was the the hinge pin from the head down through the spine. This can't be cause the hip motion (shifting and possible turning) would move that line, saying it started in the center, it certainly would be their at impact.
And don't forget, Martee, the Tripod exists despite any Body movement between the Head and Feet. Per Homer Kelley:
"The important thing is that the true Swing Center -- for all components -- is around a Hinge Pin with one end at the top of the Stationary Head and the other in the ground precisely between the Feet, with no regard for Body Location or Position at any time."
This would make it a Horizontal Hinge Pin (Perpedicular to the ground) at all times no matter what components/variations have been selected.
Quote:
....the other in the ground precisely between the Feet, with no regard for Body Location or Position at any time."
Makes me wonder if in fact Homer did select his words carefully and meant actually in between the feet. I say this cause he states between the feet and doesn't care if you have an open, closed or square stance. Had he stated horizontal to the ground, it would have had a different meaning.
I assume that we are talking the alignment wrt Impact Fix.
I can't recall the golfer, from the 30s I believe talked about using a plumb line attached to the head and swinging and it was to remain in place....
Sorry, and no disrespect, but this is a canned answer in general.
No worries Martee, I make no apologies for the "canned answer". In fact, I take that as a compliment as I strive not to go outside of the book for answers.
I also realise that I am not the sum total of knowledge and I always look forward to correction...good golfing!
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