Can we change a word in the question from OR to AND, so I can respond? I like to have options...as Mr. Kelley intended.
Homer did give recommendations, which I will follow. But, in the end, he wanted you to pick something that stayed still. If you use the head, your eyes can see more under the ball if the head moves, giving visual feedback. Thus, 2-0-A-#1 does not say a stationary neck.
There's a minimal difference in using either application, but the base of the neck allows the eyes to move. If they move, how much is too much? When does it become a sway? How can your eyes warn you upon achieving too much movement? Is it at 2.7 or 2.8 centimeters? Your guess is as good as mine.
Just keep something still so the left shoulder (center) has an additional center around which to operate, and you'll be better for it. Is that too difficult?
Of course you can have options .
I think it also depends what the student is actually doing. A student moving his head 12 inches back will require a slightly different message to a student that has a reverse pivot.
Per 1-L-2, the head is allowed to turn (but not sway or bob), but surely this rotation will change the way your eyes look at the ball. Doesn't this make the "eyes argument" obsolete, as I do not know of any great golfers who does not turn their head slightly on the backstroke? Unless, of course, you can tell the difference between a head turn and a head sway by using your eyes, which I certainly can't.
It's a shame Homer didn't add anything about the eyes, even in the 7th edition. Maybe he expected us to work it out.
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tongzilla
Last edited by tongzilla : 08-14-2006 at 07:46 AM.
Per 1-L-2, the head is allowed to turn (but not sway or bob), but surely this rotation will change the way your eyes look at the ball. Doesn't this make the "eyes argument" obsolete, as I do not know of any great golfers who does not turn their head slightly on the backstroke? Unless, of course, you can tell the difference between a head turn and a head sway by using your eyes, which I certainly can't.
Can we change a word in the question from OR to AND, so I can respond? I like to have options...as Mr. Kelley intended.
Homer did give recommendations, which I will follow. But, in the end, he wanted you to pick something that stayed still. If you use the head, your eyes can see more under the ball if the head moves, giving visual feedback. Thus, 2-0-A-#1 does not say a stationary neck.
There's a minimal difference in using either application, but the base of the neck allows the eyes to move. If they move, how much is too much? When does it become a sway? How can your eyes warn you upon achieving too much movement? Is it at 2.7 or 2.8 centimeters? Your guess is as good as mine.
Just keep something still so the left shoulder (center) has an additional center around which to operate, and you'll be better for it. Is that too difficult?
Exactly. The 'big idea' is a stable center of balance and motion and exactly where that is can depend on the number of accumulators in use and what components are at play.
What matters is the center of the circle and its relationship to the plane/ground/low point remaining in control for the shot/result you intend.
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I can honestly state that the majority of photos I have seen do not support either position.
I also wonder what the definition of the base of neck is? To me this is a point on the spine that the shoulder move up and down from, the head moves or support head movement side to side without tilting the spine.
Isn't the ideal motion and alignment to be that the motion is around the spine between the hips and shoulders?
Head movement caused by the pivot should not be considered a head in motion. Head movement independent of the pivot would be a fault or potential fault requiring adjustments during the golf stroke. Intentional head movement is often associated with bobbing and swaying, not the only cuases for this.
Minimal movement does support a stable platform and maintaining balance. This inturns supports the golf stroke alignments and minimizes any adjustments that need to be made.
Could be wrong, but back in Jack's day the pre-turn head was an option to raising the chin, both allowed the shoulder to pass without the head getting in the way.
I think it also depends what the student is actually doing. A student moving his head 12 inches back will require a slightly different message to a student that has a reverse pivot.
Per 1-L-2, the head is allowed to turn (but not sway or bob), but surely this rotation will change the way your eyes look at the ball. Doesn't this make the "eyes argument" obsolete, as I do not know of any great golfers who does not turn their head slightly on the backstroke? Unless, of course, you can tell the difference between a head turn and a head sway by using your eyes, which I certainly can't.
It's a shame Homer didn't add anything about the eyes, even in the 7th edition. Maybe he expected us to work it out.
Homer mentioned the eyes. And, I believe it was in the tapes from one of the Master's classes. It's a shame he didn't write about it and put it in the 7th.
You might not see it. But, let's not throw a "surely" out there just yet. You're a great ball striker, so I know you have the ability to perceive minute differences. If you say you don't see the difference, I have to believe you.
I find a very big visual difference in what the eyes perceive when the head is swaying versus the head turning. Most have the ability to move their eyes in the sockets...like this: If your eyes stayed fixed in the sockets, I could see that it would be hard to differentiate. I know your eyes do not.
I can focus my eyes on the tiny power light on my computer monitor and turn my head. As I turn my head, my eyes stay focused on the light. So, my eyes turn to the left as my head turns to the right.
When swaying, even the smallest amount, I notice the sway. There is a visual difference.
An optometrist will have to describe the way the eyes triangulate to see the differences. It's not my field. But when you sway to the right, the right eye has to be looking down the hypotenuse of a right triangle. And, your left eye would have to be looking down the shorter side. Your head would only have to move the distance from the center of your nose to the pupil of your left eye, for it to become a right triangle.
This whole "eye" discussion is interesting...but it certainly seems way out of proportion to the importance of other swing principles...Duval can shoot a 59 and he isn't even looking at the ball at impact (at least before he messed with his swing)...his head was already turned and looking down the fairway...I think Annika does the same thing and she isn't too bad a player.
This whole "eye" discussion is interesting...but it certainly seems way out of proportion to the importance of other swing principles...Duval can shoot a 59 and he isn't even looking at the ball at impact (at least before he messed with his swing)...his head was already turned and looking down the fairway...I think Annika does the same thing and she isn't too bad a player.
I agre hg. It is just that some like to agrue. Loudest guys win.
Shame.
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If your eyes stayed fixed in the sockets, I could see that it would be hard to differentiate. I know your eyes do not. 
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