Ok . . . so if we are going through the Hinge Motions on say 2 feet back and 2 feet through, how much clubface roatation are we talking about? When you look at the Swingvisions the pro's don't really have the clubface moving around a whole lot.
If you just put the toe of the club on a wall and scrape it back and forth would the toe come off the wall on Horizontal Hinging?
If you just put the toe of the club on a wall and scrape it back and forth would the toe come off the wall on Horizontal Hinging?
Originally Posted by neil
Yes!
Assuming Dual Horizontal Hinging (10-10-D) or even Dual Vertical Hinging (10-10-E) or simply Angled Hinging (10-10-C), I agree wholeheartedly with Neil. The 'Dual' refers to one Plane of Motion for the Clubshaft (Inclined) and another for the Clubface (Horizontal or Vertical). In other words, whatever the Motion of the Clubface -- Close Only (Horizontal Hinging), Layback Only (Vertical Hinging) or Simultaneous Close and Layback (Anged Hinging) -- we assume an Inclined Plane of Motion of the Clubshaft, i.e., the Golf Stroke itself.
However, with a Putt or very short Chip Shot, the Clubhead can be made to cover the Line, thereby remaining in a Vertical Plane and thus ignoring the Inclined Plane. Then and only then will the Club continuously 'scrape the wall.'
Normally, though, the Club is swung on an Inclined Plane. Then, with the Ball located somewhat back of the normal Low Point, i.e., opposite the Left Shoulder, the Clubhead will 'scrape' very little a vertical wall in Start Up. Instead, it will move Up, Back and In immediately on an inclined wall. In so doing, it will always point at -- but not cover! -- its Straight Line Base Line (Plane Line).
Then, having merely scraped the wallboard momentarily in Start Up, the Clubhead will obliterate it as it moves Down, Out and Forward through Impact and Low Point during the Follow-Through.
Assuming Dual Horizontal Hinging (10-10-D) or even Dual Vertical Hinging (10-10-E) or simply Angled Hinging (10-10-C), I agree wholeheartedly with Neil. The 'Dual' refers to one Plane of Motion for the Clubshaft (Inclined) and another for the Clubface (Horizontal or Vertical). In other words, whatever the Motion of the Clubface -- Close Only (Horizontal Hinging), Layback Only (Vertical Hinging) or Simultaneous Close and Layback (Anged Hinging) -- we assume an Inclined Plane of Motion of the Clubshaft, i.e., the Golf Stroke itself.
However, with a Putt or very short Chip Shot, the Clubhead can be made to cover the Line, thereby remaining in a Vertical Plane and thus ignoring the Inclined Plane. Then and only then will the Club continuously 'scrape the wall.'
Normally, though, the Club is swung on an Inclined Plane. Then, with the Ball located somewhat back of the normal Low Point, i.e., opposite the Left Shoulder, the Clubhead will 'scrape' very little a vertical wall in Start Up. Instead, it will move Up, Back and In immediately on an inclined wall. In so doing, it will always point at -- but not cover! -- its Straight Line Base Line (Plane Line).
Then, having merely scraped the wallboard momentarily in Start Up, the Clubhead will obliterate it as it moves Down, Out and Forward through Impact and Low Point during the Follow-Through.
Assuming Dual Horizontal Hinging (10-10-D) or even Dual Vertical Hinging (10-10-E) or simply Angled Hinging (10-10-C), I agree wholeheartedly with Neil. The 'Dual' refers to one Plane of Motion for the Clubshaft (Inclined) and another for the Clubface (Horizontal or Vertical). In other words, whatever the Motion of the Clubface -- Close Only (Horizontal Hinging), Layback Only (Vertical Hinging) or Simultaneous Close and Layback (Anged Hinging) -- we assume an Inclined Plane of Motion of the Clubshaft, i.e., the Golf Stroke itself.
However, with a Putt or very short Chip Shot, the Clubhead can be made to cover the Line, thereby remaining in a Vertical Plane and thus ignoring the Inclined Plane. Then and only then will the Club continuously 'scrape the wall.'
Normally, though, the Club is swung on an Inclined Plane. Then, with the Ball located somewhat back of the normal Low Point, i.e., opposite the Left Shoulder, the Clubhead will 'scrape' very little a vertical wall in Start Up. Instead, it will move Up, Back and In immediately on an inclined wall. In so doing, it will always point at -- but not cover! -- its Straight Line Base Line (Plane Line).
Then, having merely scraped the wallboard momentarily in Start Up, the Clubhead will obliterate it as it moves Down, Out and Forward through Impact and Low Point during the Follow-Through.
Bossman . . . TOTALLY with you on the Inclined Plane deal. I must clarify my wall example which is for obvious reasons a poor one with regards to golf being played on an inclined plane. Let us forget about walls and planes for a sec . . . . assuming we have a clubhead that is on plane (thus tracing a straight plane line) how much clubface motion could we expect with horizontal hinging for say 12 inches prior to impact point and 12 inches after separation? I'm thinking that maybe people have the clubface rotating TOO MUCH when using horizontal hinging (swivel vs. hinging).
Take a look at these clubfaces . . . What are we seeing? Can we make a statement about what hinge action we are seeing with these? These clubfaces seem to be pretty "quiet" to me.
Bossman . . . TOTALLY with you on the Inclined Plane deal. I must clarify my wall example which is for obvious reasons a poor one with regards to golf being played on an inclined plane. Let us forget about walls and planes for a sec . . . .
... how much clubface motion could we expect with horizontal hinging for say 12 inches prior to impact point and 12 inches after separation? I'm thinking that maybe people have the clubface rotating TOO MUCH when using horizontal hinging (swivel vs. hinging).
Swingers typically execute Release as Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A). In other words, from Release to Impact, the Left Wrist executes an Uncock and Roll.
This Release Roll is a true Swivel -- independent Wrist Motion -- from Release to Impact. This is followed by a Hinge Action 'Roll' (the Left Wrist simply remaining vertical to one of the three associated Planes) from Impact to the end of the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position).
For a given Clubface executing Horizontal Hinge Action (Closing Only) about a constant Pivot Swing Center -- there can be only so many finite degrees of travel.
For a given Clubface executing Horizontal Hinge Action (Closing Only) about a constant Pivot Swing Center -- there can be only so many finite degrees of travel.
Sorry about changing the rules on you
This may be a better dealie . . .
I just took a club and held it against the door. Opened and closed the door 2 feet back 2 feet through . . . This would certainly qualify as Horizontal Hinging no? There ain't a whole lot of action going on with that clubface. It is closing without question. BUT the toe ain't slammin' shut like a screen door in a trailer park during a tornado.
At least for me that was an education . . . My version of Horizontal Hinging was FOR SURE Swivel and add a Turned Left Hand to the mix . . . I'm deeeeeeep in the woods where the elephants go to die.
I just took a club and held it against the door. Opened and closed the door 2 feet back 2 feet through . . . This would certainly qualify as Horizontal Hinging no? There ain't a whole lot of action going on with that clubface. It is closing without question. BUT the toe ain't slammin' shut like a screen door in a trailer park during a tornado.
At least for me that was an education . . . My version of Horizontal Hinging was FOR SURE Swivel and add a Turned Left Hand to the mix . . . I'm deeeeeeep in the woods where the elephants go to die.
Bucket ,the door is reflecting the hinge action -but not on an inclined plane
But the closing only motion is the same.It's got to close from "on plane" at the start of release,to square at separation -so depending how late you release,it may have to close 90* in -say-4 feet. 22.5* per foot!
__________________
neil k
Last edited by neil : 09-14-2007 at 07:59 AM.
Reason: addition
BUT the toe ain't slammin' shut like a screen door in a trailer park during a tornado.
I may be misunderstanding your intent, but as long as the screen door is installed on hinges, the "clubface" or door motion is still the exact same.
Same action of the clubface, but at a different rate of speed (therefore, no "timing" of clubface closing - no matter your rate of speed). Push a door as hard as you want, it will still line up exactly with the frame (at some point along its journey).
As far as how much clubface rotation, the amount will be perfect every time if you take care of proper alignment and physics, (that is FLW held vertical to the related basic plane (a condition) and orbiting arms and/or torso) and also if you just know that hinging is not idependent wrist rotation. So this might say, if worried about executing a swivel instead of hinging, feel what the arms and torso are torso are doing - only orbiting, no effort towards any independent wrist rotation.
Hybrid Mode
