Matthew Quote: However in the golf stroke the left shoulder is moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction and this brings the low point backwards somewhat.
Actually, not necessarily. This would be true if the left shoulder was moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction IF the left arm/club was perpendicular to the shoulder line. The fact that it's normally not- "leans forward" i.e. the arm hasn't come across the chest completely, creates an offsetting factor. Also, you are assuming that there is no other downward movement of the clubhead as a result of the wrist uncocking or any other downward motion affecting the clubhead.
I would of let this slide if you had said "for concept purposes" or if you assumed a fixed "arm - club" perpendicular to the shoulder line (don't get nit picky on the perpendicular- if you need more details I'll supply it) but this holds no such disclaimer.
Should we go on Okie? Or do you need a moment to get a beer out of the fridge?
Can you prove the above? I'm not saying your wrong . . . but time somebody says "the shoulders turn perpendicular to the spine." You say, "What are your sources?"
Can you prove the above? I'm not saying your wrong . . . but time somebody says "the shoulders turn perpendicular to the spine." You say, "What are your sources?"
So . .. What are YOUR sources?
Let's go dork.
Dear Dorkface, (I wonder what someone new to the forum would think?)
Yes, Of course- you need to prove any statement with additional statements if asked or show sources that can validate your proposition. During that process you either find out you're an idiot (hey- been there done that!) or find out that at least for now you are right!
I'm just saying that from a geometrical perspective- if you have one stick that represents the shoulder line (the clavicles move independently but we are just keeping them in-line for our example to prove the point at hand) and another stick that is 90 degrees to it i.e. perpendicular (obviously that's no exactly true either but again we are just isolating the essential issue here). Now, nail the shoulder stick to a wall- nail goes through the middle/half down the stick- i.e. at the neck/head if you are relating it to a golfer- with each end of the stick representing the shoulders. This stick is going to be able to spin around on the nail - like a spinning wheel- one end of the stick represents Matthew's "lead" shoulder - "orbiting". Here are the two scenario's:
1) If the second stick- representing the arm/club is perpendicular to the shoulder line stick- and attached at the end of the shoulder line stick where Matthew's lead/left shoulder is - then where is low point? It is opposite the end of the stick representing Matthew's left shoulder WHEN the shoulder stick is parallel to the ground. So this looks like a T except the vertical line is moved to the right side of the top line.
2) Now, when you change the vertical stick from perpendicular to the top line/shoulder line stick and make it at an angle to the top line stick 7 then low point isn't necessarily occuring when the shoulder line stick becomes parallel to the ground. You can move beyond parallel to the ground- have the left shoulder side of the stick continue to move "up" and the lower end of the vertical stick can still be moving down.
A few of the basic variables are how long is the shoulder line stick, and how long is the arm/club stick that is angled, and how much of an angle is the arm/club stick in relation to the shoulder line stick.
Bring back the questions - if your gravy brain doesn't understand what I'm saying or I'm an idiot. But before I go- here is what experiment I perform - that I would recommend that you perform to see what I'm talking about. Just take two pencils - and go through the above two examples and watch where low point occurs for the pencil that is angled in relation to the - "spinning wheel" pencil.
Better yet- just take your scissors and cut out a number 7- now hold the seven down with your pencil lead in the middle of the top line and when you rotate it- see if the bottom of the 7 - goes lower- down further - even when the "left shoulder" is moving "up" past the point of the top line being parallel to the ground. In either the 7 or the perpendicular one- low point ends up opposite the left shoulder.
SOURCES LISTED: MIKE O. and LOGIC
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Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
Dear Dorkface, (I wonder what someone new to the forum would think?)
Blah blah blah blah
Are you wondering what a newbie would think if they saw you called me dorkface? Or what they would think about all the convaluted stuff you just typed?
Let me reread and do your little pencil experiment (tee'd it high . . . you let it fly) . . . I'll holla back.
Are you wondering what a newbie would think if they saw you called me dorkface? Or what they would think about all the convaluted stuff you just typed?
Let me reread and do your little pencil experiment (tee'd it high . . . you let it fly) . . . I'll holla back.
(can a pencil be a source?).
Here's my simple version for Barbecue heads!
Matthew was saying that since the left shoulder was orbiting up- that low point wouldn't be opposite the left shoulder.
Take your scissors and cut out a number 7- now hold the seven down with your pencil lead in the middle of the top line and when you rotate it- see if the bottom of the 7 - goes lower- down further - even when the "left shoulder" is moving "up" past the point of the top line being parallel to the ground. In either the 7 or the perpendicular one- low point ends up opposite the left shoulder.
I've also heard from the head office that no one will room with you or be your partner in the best ball (here comes Jeff Hull to give me the USGA official format) - head office says that I must partner up with you in all ways imaginable! - for the October event. Maybe you can begin the betting chart for all teams- and two man teams need to register/announce on the forum!
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
"Better yet- just take your scissors and cut out a number 7- now hold the seven down with your pencil lead in the middle of the top line and when you rotate it- see if the bottom of the 7 - goes lower- down further - even when the "left shoulder" is moving "up" past the point of the top line being parallel to the ground. In either the 7 or the perpendicular one- low point ends up opposite the left shoulder."
"Better yet- just take your scissors and cut out a number 7- now hold the seven down with your pencil lead in the middle of the top line and when you rotate it- see if the bottom of the 7 - goes lower- down further - even when the "left shoulder" is moving "up" past the point of the top line being parallel to the ground. In either the 7 or the perpendicular one- low point ends up opposite the left shoulder."
Mike O,
I cut out the 7, and by gum, it works!
UPP in snowy and cold Ohio
UPP- Could you call or PM Bucket- poor guy- it'll be a week before he could find a pair of scissors- figure out what 7 is- cutting the 7 will take him a week- he just needs some help- pitiful!
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
Matthew was saying that since the left shoulder was orbiting up- that low point wouldn't be opposite the left shoulder.
Take your scissors and cut out a number 7- now hold the seven down with your pencil lead in the middle of the top line and when you rotate it- see if the bottom of the 7 - goes lower- down further - even when the "left shoulder" is moving "up" past the point of the top line being parallel to the ground. In either the 7 or the perpendicular one- low point ends up opposite the left shoulder.
I've also heard from the head office that no one will room with you or be your partner in the best ball (here comes Jeff Hull to give me the USGA official format) - head office says that I must partner up with you in all ways imaginable! - for the October event. Maybe you can begin the betting chart for all teams- and two man teams need to register/announce on the forum!
What if the left shoulder moves up AND to the rear?
So we're partnering up in "all ways imaginable?" Do I bring the banjo and the motor oil or do you?
What if the left shoulder moves up AND to the rear?
So we're partnering up in "all ways imaginable?" Do I bring the banjo and the motor oil or do you?
UPP,
Do you see what happens when you don't make the house call!!
Get your azz out of that snow and down to North Carolina to take care of my boy!! I told you exactly what would happen- the boy hasn't even cut out his 7 yet! When you get there and get the 7 cut out- have him poke his lead (please Bucket- don't!)- through the 7 and then have that 7 circle around on an inclined plane- then he'll have his top of the 7 moving "up & rear" i.e. on an inclined plane. Have him report back after he's done that and let's see what he thinks. If he doesn't have his 7 cut out in the next 2 weeks- I'll be driving to Ohio- you wouldn't like that UPP
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
I told you exactly what would happen- the boy hasn't even cut out his 7 yet!
When you get there and get the 7 cut out- have him poke his lead (please Bucket- don't!)- through the 7 and then have that 7 circle around on an inclined plane- then he'll have his top of the 7 moving "up & rear" i.e. on an inclined plane. Have him report back after he's done that and let's see what he thinks. If he doesn't have his 7 cut out in the next 2 weeks- I'll be driving to Ohio- you wouldn't like that UPP
Linear Mode
