I think if you're tracing the Plane line and the Pivot is responding to that, then the #3 PP maintains its relationship to the plane line. Hands Controlled Pivot.
Thats pretty much where Im at these days too. Lagging takeaway, float loading. Am I thrusting? I dunno. Just really trying to sustain the same pressure in my #3 as long as I can , which requires a steady and constant rate of acceleration. Which means I start off slow so I can maintain the rate. Right hand karate chop maybe?
But D if you can do this "Pivot does the work" thing going down and call it Hands to Pivot why cant you subscribe to a similar thing going back? I do. As long as the Hands direct which can be seen in an on plane clubshaft , it is Hands to Pivot aint it?
I had this very conversation with Yoda today. The hips can move first in start up and still maintain hands controlled pivot. I had misunderstood it completely. Fun to learn from the Great One!
Kevin
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I had this very conversation with Yoda today. The hips can move first in start up and still maintain hands controlled pivot. I had misunderstood it completely. Fun to learn from the Great One!
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
Here's another Great One.
From "Homers Notes" (Vikram). I can't speak for the notes. They were transcribed by Chuck from recorded audio which included information for the 7th Edition revisions. I didn't record them and I don't know the context.
Quote:
Hip Action - The hip action turns the shoulders in various combination's. But leading the backstroke with hip action is Pivot controlled Hands. Hip action is work and must be controlled.
Hip Motion is not work. I suppose that if your Hip Turn doesn't disturb the Hands relationship with the Plane Line.
Pivot controlled hands occurs when the #3 pressure point senses and maintains a relationship to the Pivoting Body. The Hands go along for the ride.
From "Homers Notes" (Vikram). I can't speak for the notes. They were transcribed by Chuck from recorded audio which included information for the 7th Edition revisions. I didn't record them and I don't know the context.
Daryl,
I wonder if a little right hip bump at startup is what Mr. Kelley meant by "leading the backstroke with hip action?" I was surprised by this train of thought, but Yoda convinced me 100%
Perhaps it was because we were in teaching mode and my problem was my right hip being locked up on the backstroke making it very difficult to keep the shaft on plane?
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I wonder if a little right hip bump at startup is what Mr. Kelley meant by "leading the backstroke with hip action?" I was surprised by this train of thought, but Yoda convinced me 100%
Perhaps it was because we were in teaching mode and my problem was my right hip being locked up on the backstroke making it very difficult to keep the shaft on plane?
Kevin
I think he was saying that Hip Action moves the Shoulders, which will move the Arms and Hands. So, starting with the Hips and ending with the Hands, is an actual pivot controlled hands. I don't think a Hip Bump is Hip Action. I understand more clearly now. I'm sure you can have a lot more motion than what you're doing and the Hands are still controlling the work of the pivot before it gets the other way around. You aren't allowing the Pivot to take control of the Hands (pull them off track).
Better pay attention to this drill . . . . Mr. Hogan's club didn't deviate from the plane angle very much thru the ball . . . . there are some BIG pieces here . . . . Mr. Hogan controlled the 3 functions better than anyone . . . . His selected plane angle was different than some prescribe but . . . these were his components to achieve it. Consider the implications of what is being said here . . . consider the #3 accumulator motion and its angle for Mr. Hogan's plane . . . consider the description of the Elbow Plane in the earlier editions (paraphrasing . . . the Rightforearm moves at right angles to the axis) . . . consider the implications of a larger #3 angle on the amount of face rotation and clubhead travel for a given amount of roll . . . consider the Arc of Approach delivery path vs. straight line . . . . Consider what the arms do if the Arc of Approach gets WIDER . . . is it really pivot controlled hands?
Not pivot controlled hands . . . more like Hogan controlled Plane, Hogan controlled head, Hogan controlled face, Hogan controlled ball, Hogan controlled GAME.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 08-11-2009 at 12:40 AM.
Elbow Basic Plane Angle - Normally, the Right Forearm will be moving at right angles to the torso - which are the unexcelled alignments for Right Arm Power and On Plane "Throw Out" action. The Elbow Plane is normally a Pivot Controlled Stroke. HK
Quote:
“Golf is not a game of good shots. It's a game of bad shots.” BH
Quote:
"Selecting a stroke is like selecting a wife. To each his own." BH
Quote:
"There's no such thing as a natural golf swing." BH
I think he was saying that Hip Action moves the Shoulders, which will move the Arms and Hands. So, starting with the Hips and ending with the Hands, is an actual pivot controlled hands. I don't think a Hip Bump is Hip Action. I understand more clearly now. I'm sure you can have a lot more motion than what you're doing and the Hands are still controlling the work of the pivot before it gets the other way around. You aren't allowing the Pivot to take control of the Hands (pull them off track).
Thanks Daryl!
On a side note, I will post more in it's own thread when I have time, but what an incredible experience hosting a workshop with YODA. Unbelievable teacher, he makes it so simple. Incredibly great guy, just a wonderful gentleman who has so much enthusiasm that it is infectious!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I think if you're tracing the Plane line and the Pivot is responding to that, then the #3 PP maintains its relationship to the plane line. Hands Controlled Pivot.
I like this. Going down everyone would agree, Hands to Pivot, although the Pivot powers the power package. Going back is where peoples opinions differ.
If the pivot provides some power in addition to or prior to RFT even in startup but the #3 is still tracing, your statement still holds true to my thinking. Hands to Pivot. In essence if you are Tracing , Hands to Pivot.
A Lagging Takeaway in particular, I find, needs the pivots help to power the initial move away from the ball. A pure Carry Back motion wouldnt need it as much. The Physics of getting the pivot going early is not a requisite maybe, for some, depends on your motion. Im thinking the more Hogan like you are the more you need to do it. The more Rope Handle, the more you swing from the feet maybe. But everyone needs to pre clear the right hip for geometric reasons. see 12-3-0
I personally subscribe to the right hip clearing actually moving the clubhead a touch prior to the RFT assuming a lightly soled, hung set of Flying Wedges with a level left wrist. The perfect start to a Lagging Takeaway. You need the no tension, homeostatic, hanging set of wrists though. Like Hogans two pistols.
Dang I was so happy Hitting and then I started watching the Hogan in Mexico video every night .................. his Rope Handle motion is so beguiling.
Better pay attention to this drill . . . . Mr. Hogan's club didn't deviate from the plane angle very much thru the ball . . . . there are some BIG pieces here . . . . Mr. Hogan controlled the 3 functions better than anyone . . . . His selected plane angle was different than some prescribe but . . . these were his components to achieve it. Consider the implications of what is being said here . . . consider the #3 accumulator motion and its angle for Mr. Hogan's plane . . . consider the description of the Elbow Plane in the earlier editions (paraphrasing . . . the Rightforearm moves at right angles to the axis) . . . consider the implications of a larger #3 angle on the amount of face rotation and clubhead travel for a given amount of roll . . . consider the Arc of Approach delivery path vs. straight line . . . . Consider what the arms do if the Arc of Approach gets WIDER . . . is it really pivot controlled hands?
Not pivot controlled hands . . . more like Hogan controlled Plane, Hogan controlled head, Hogan controlled face, Hogan controlled ball, Hogan controlled GAME.
Bagger should give you another 1000 posts for this.
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