I do not see this as a moral issue. Burley makes good points about two are needed to participate in extratiger affairs. However the issue is the pedestal he put himself on with advertisers, media... He has marketed himself in a manner that demands care in his personal life. Sponsors pay for that. Daly has never tried to be anyone else. Tiger has, and has put himself in a position unlike any other athlete. He wants to be held to a different standard than any golfer who ever played. He asked for it. Hogan played six tournaments a year, went home in between and ran a business. Was it anyone's business how he and Valerie lived? NO. Tiger is on tv every day, on the cover of magazines with the President of the United States. He certainly has enjoyed his pedestal, he deserves what he gets out of this. By the way, are their any pictures of Hogan out there with Vegas floozies? If so I take this rant back.
Daly has never been mistaken for someone worthy of emulation! Unless of course your thing is morbidly obese (pre-surgery), alcoholic, mulletted knuckle-dragging neanderthal golfing savants! Talent without character is a milestone around your neck. I guess I lost my way in the discussion. I agree that there was a lot of "massaging" going on as far as Tiger's public personae.Anyone taken by surprise is naive i.e. that the public and private do not match up. However, if you are not surprised by the disparity between the two then you are jaded at best! I have already stated that Tiger had demonstrated to me that he had embraced his larger than lifeness by small incidents of poor self-control (profanity and compulsive gambling...something yet to make headlines). Robert Redford wisely said that success is something you spar with, but never embrace.The biggest sucker in the media-hype that surrounds Tiger is...Tiger. I think the strongest indictment may be directed towards those that think that the only important thing about Tiger is his talent, or his march into the history books, not his character. Madonna (the moderately talented Louise Veronica Ciccone) is famous, Mother Theresa is GREAT. Fame is fickle and fleeting, but greatness is sublime. It is a mistake to fragment people in this manner. It suggests a gross misunderstanding of humanity. Talent merely provides the context for the development of their character.A means to an end, never an end in itself. I always thought that is what Earl Woods meant with regards to Tiger. You have talent...you are your character. For the purpose of this discussion I do not care if you are a Kantian ethicist, or an evangelical Christian...character counts.It is not a thing, it is the thing. As Bucket has suggested the grotesqueness of his transgressions is telling, and does not automatically fall under a general category of misdeeds. Morality is always the issue. In my rant I am suggesting that I care more for Tiger's personal struggle than his public future. The consequences of his actions is not what puts him in jeopardy, but rather the source of those actions. Great people build altars (their talent is tethered to the sacred trust that comes with it)...famous people pitch tents (they eventually believe that there talent is self-originating and will therefore deny its primary purpose of it in the first place)
There may be dirt on the likes of Jack Nicklaus that has not come to light. But I am almost sure that he did not conduct himself like certain forum members would in a goat paddock. So I will tend to think that Jack Nicklaus did what he did as a golfer while doing what needs to be done as a husband and father. Tiger will never challenge JWN in my mind ever again. If this is a minority opinion then I will take that as affirmation.
There is no doubt that the hoochies are complicit. But like marriage it is never a 50/50 proposition. It is an "all in" kinda thing.
I do believe that Tiger can make a character comeback, lest you think me to be a pharisee. But it is on that basis alone that he will make a real comeback. I wish him well.
Daly has never been mistaken for someone worthy of emulation! Unless of course your thing is morbidly obese (pre-surgery), alcoholic, mulletted knuckle-dragging neanderthal golfing savants! Talent without character is a milestone around your neck. I guess I lost my way in the discussion. I agree that there was a lot of "massaging" going on as far as Tiger's public personae.Anyone taken by surprise is naive i.e. that the public and private do not match up. However, if you are not surprised by the disparity between the two then you are jaded at best! I have already stated that Tiger had demonstrated to me that he had embraced his larger than lifeness by small incidents of poor self-control (profanity and compulsive gambling...something yet to make headlines). Robert Redford wisely said that success is something you spar with, but never embrace.The biggest sucker in the media-hype that surrounds Tiger is...Tiger. I think the strongest indictment may be directed towards those that think that the only important thing about Tiger is his talent, or his march into the history books, not his character. Madonna (the moderately talented Louise Veronica Ciccone) is famous, Mother Theresa is GREAT. Fame is fickle and fleeting, but greatness is sublime. It is a mistake to fragment people in this manner. It suggests a gross misunderstanding of humanity. Talent merely provides the context for the development of their character.A means to an end, never an end in itself. I always thought that is what Earl Woods meant with regards to Tiger. You have talent...you are your character. For the purpose of this discussion I do not care if you are a Kantian ethicist, or an evangelical Christian...character counts.It is not a thing, it is the thing. As Bucket has suggested the grotesqueness of his transgressions is telling, and does not automatically fall under a general category of misdeeds. Morality is always the issue. In my rant I am suggesting that I care more for Tiger's personal struggle than his public future. The consequences of his actions is not what puts him in jeopardy, but rather the source of those actions. Great people build altars (their talent is tethered to the sacred trust that comes with it)...famous people pitch tents (they eventually believe that there talent is self-originating and will therefore deny its primary purpose of it in the first place)
There may be dirt on the likes of Jack Nicklaus that has not come to light. But I am almost sure that he did not conduct himself like certain forum members would in a goat paddock. So I will tend to think that Jack Nicklaus did what he did as a golfer while doing what needs to be done as a husband and father. Tiger will never challenge JWN in my mind ever again. If this is a minority opinion then I will take that as affirmation.
There is no doubt that the hoochies are complicit. But like marriage it is never a 50/50 proposition. It is an "all in" kinda thing.
I do believe that Tiger can make a character comeback, lest you think me to be a pharisee. But it is on that basis alone that he will make a real comeback. I wish him well.
Read the text messages between him and Jamie Grubb (was there ever a more appropriare name?) today and it seems he wasn't just doing one night stands. He was text flirting right through his marriage.
Makes it even worse in my opinion.
Living in the UK I'm not really able to make this comparison so I'll let you yanks tell me if it is similar but would Tiger going on to break Jack's record now be considered sullied in the same way as Bonds breaking Ruth's home run record is?
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
Living in the UK I'm not really able to make this comparison so I'll let you yanks tell me if it is similar but would Tiger going on to break Jack's record now be considered sullied in the same way as Bonds breaking Ruth's home run record is?
Bonds record is tainted because he (allegedly) used performance enhancing drugs to make it happen. I seriously doubt anybody will credit Tiger's on-course achievements to his off-course 'transgressions'; if anything I would think all that sneaking around and apparent late nights would have hurt his game.
Nobody I know thinks less of Kobe's, Jordan's or Wilt Chamberlain's body of work on the basketball court because of their promiscuity off of it. Tiger being friends with guys like Kobe and Jordan all seems pretty fitting now, eh?
Read the text messages between him and Jamie Grubb (was there ever a more appropriare name?) today and it seems he wasn't just doing one night stands. He was text flirting right through his marriage.
Makes it even worse in my opinion.
Living in the UK I'm not really able to make this comparison so I'll let you yanks tell me if it is similar but would Tiger going on to break Jack's record now be considered sullied in the same way as Bonds breaking Ruth's home run record is?
He had multiple year long flings with woman, he obviously had no regard for his wife...I don't know how she could stay with him.
Unless it comes out that Tiger cheated on the course this has nothing to do with his golf....now if it affects his golf that will be another story.
Agreed but there is some smoke coming from a distant fire that points towards a possible WADA transgression. I hope he wasnt aloof or stupid enough to take the banned meds.
Compare with David Duval, who wants to play like he used to so his wife and kids can see how good he once was. I know who I am rooting for. That is character.
Compare with David Duval, who wants to play like he used to so his wife and kids can see how good he once was. I know who I am rooting for. That is character.
Nice point . . . Duval had an interesting take on this . . . Heard it on the radio . . . this was prior to all the skanks piling up. But something basically saying that he was gonna get ambushed by the press . . . whatever that means. Love Duval though.
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