Don't waste your time on this ICT, he's jerking you around. If he could understand what you wrote well enough to ask a question, then he would be able to ask in English.
Don't waste your time on this ICT, he's jerking you around. If he could understand what you wrote well enough to ask a question, then he would be able to ask in English.
As the kids in my school would say! "Real rap," (you're right) "No fraudin'!" (I'm not kidding!)
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Square / Closed shoulders = Horizontal Hinge Hammering!!!
More mirror work revealed that I NORMALLY SET UP WITH MY SHOULDERS SLIGHTLY OPEN!!!
Lynn wasted no time showing me Mid-Body hands during our four days together. The result? Horizontal Hinge Hammering!!!
Coupled with a firm Bent Right Wrist, and a correct Right Forearm Angle of Approach, square to closed shoulders make the Horizontal Hinge Hammer happen (sorry)! Doesn't matter how I take the club back or how I trigger the down swing, left heel plant, left knee point, right heel lift, right knee point, right elbow re-connection no matter, a square or closed front shoulder makes the hammer work.
Mid- Body Hands or Moe Norman's angled set-up, sets the shoulders correctly for the solid hit!
My theory and confirmed observation is that my shorter left leg and artificial left hip simply lead me to always stand with my left shoulder open and has to be purposefully closed. (And for some strange reason, the elbow plane achieved by a lawnmower pull takeaway feels like it generates a lot more lag into the ball!)
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 01-22-2013 at 12:27 AM.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,648
One Man's Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by fladan
I read this thread with great interest as I've struggled getting the club to "lay on the line" for years. Lynn and I have worked quite a bit on this, and during our school at Pine Tree last week, another contributor to being "under plane" in startup/backstroke came into view.
The golfer can have EA, minimal pivot (acquired motion) and still have trouble maintaining the clubshaft's alignment to the plane line; wrist conditions (Mechanical Checklist, Section 4/5, #16) also play a role. Remember the left wrist cock is a vertical motion. Go to impact fix - then cock the left wrist vertically. This gives you the wrist alignments at top (and at finish)
I found my left wrist arched as I moved from startup into backstroke. This caused the need for a compensating move at top. Life got much simpler lately when I corrected this error.
Moral to the story: Use 12-3 Mechanical checklist. The answers are there!
Great post, Dan. Just like your swing!
Yoda
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Thrust vs. Speed - Clubshaft Stiffness (6-C-2-D LAG LOSS) GM#49
Originally Posted by Ray Cayse
Yoda,
How do you suppose Homer would explain some of the trick shots of "Heiter the Hit Man" or the 300 plus yard drives by Fred Couples with Tom Watson's wife's 3 metal a few years back?
Ray Cayse
The explanation was clearly presented in my prior post. However, I will expand on it a bit, then reiterate the principle.
The Sweet Spot seeks its in-line condition with the #3 Pressure Point. This is the Centrifugal Line of Pull that exists regardless of Shaft Flex. As I stated in my earlier post, Shaft Flex is important to the Swinger only to minimize Clubface deviation. It means nothing in terms of power. This fact is clearly demonstrated by Fred Couples -- a consumate Swinger -- ripping the Ball 300 yards with a woman's (presumably) flexible shaft.
That said, Fred Couples would have ripped it 300 yards had the Shaft been Stiff. And maybe it was. Who knows? In any event, it makes no difference, because like Homer said...
Shaft Flex means little to the Swinger. Regardless of Flex, it performs as a piece of string.
About Freddy Couples...not an unqualified recommendation but a stationary head!
Quote:
Yoda
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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1-L THE MACHINE CONCEPT #1 The Stationary Post GM#145
Originally Posted by bobbywayne
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by mb6606
The pictures in 9-1 and Yoda's keeping the head stationary at impact fix would suggest a slight reverse pivot move?????
There is no Reverse Pivot in The Golfing Machine. There is only the correct Pivot. That Pivot is kept Centered by the Stationary Head, in turn kept Centered between the Stationary Feet (9-1-1 #1; 9-1-3; 9-2-1 #1; 9-2-2 #1).
Many 'authorities' believe the Head should -- indeed must -- move to the right on the Backstroke. Not surprisingly, the Position Golf, Pivot-Controlled-Hands procedures they teach exacerbate that tendency. In contrast, Golfers who embrace Alignment Golf and its Hand-Controlled-Pivot procedures soon learn that the proper Right Forearm Pickup eliminates any urge to move the Stationary Head.
The Body moves only as necessary to accomodate and support the On Plane assignments of the Hands. That includes the Downstroke Right Shoulder function -- Momentum Transfer (Left Arm Thrust) for Swingers and Launching Pad (of Right Arm Thrust) for Hitters. The Legs -- the Feet and Knees -- stabilize that motion as they pull the Shoulder Downplane via the Hip Action. Basically, Machine Golfers learn to just stand there...take it up...
And rip it!
Bold Red emphasis by bobbywayne
I would never have believed or considered this until I attended the Secrets of The Golfing Machine Workshop put on by Chuck Evans and Yoda. For many years I had been of the "low, slow, straight back with the left arm and left shoulder" group. The Magic Right Forearm was a difficult concept to accept and, for me, to learn. I stuck with the drills, and only recently have I been able to hit shots. Honestly, you do not have to move your head. For you "low, slow, straight back with your left arm, left shoulder" players, this will feel -- comparatively -- like you're standing still and chopping wood. But, I have never hit the ball more solid than with this technique.
Watch Fred Couples.
He stands there...his Stationary Head centered between his Stationary Feet.
He picks the Club almost straight up to the Top. His Head remains Stationary and his Left Foot remains Flat. He is in perfect Balance.
He delivers the Club almost straight down into Impact. [Talk about your small Pulley Wheel encounters (2-K #6)!] His Head remains Stationary and his Feet maintain his perfect Balance.
He remains, at the age of 44, one of the longest Drivers of the Ball on the PGA TOUR and has won $1,820,495 year-to-date.
No 'move to the right.'
No Heel lift on the Backstroke.
No exaggerated 'leg drive.'
Just the smoothest Swing in Golf producing some of the longest Shots and lowest scores in Golf.
Go figure.
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ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 01-24-2013 at 03:03 PM.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by mattsdad
Matt,
In the Collin Neeman lesson videos, Lynn talks about promoting a fade by using angled hinging. I believe that Collin is a Swinger, so I am wondering how to reconcile your statement about the inclination of the clubhead to close (which is what I experience when I try to Swing with angled hinging) with Lynn's advice to Collin.
RT
With angled hinging, the clubface will not close during the impact interval as much as it does with horizontal hinging. This in turn will impart some "fade" spin onto the ball. A perfectly centered impact with horizontal hinging produces perfect compression and, given the correct ball position, a dead-straight shot.
What Lynn means is that in general an angled hinge produces a fade. I was saying that when you do Swing with an angled hinge that due to the physics of Swinging the clubface WANTS to close. Each and every stroke you need to fight the tendency of the clubface to close down and produce horizontal hinging.
So in summary: when Swinging the clubface naturally wants to close through impact. To make an angled hinge, you can't let that happen. If you do successfully keep the closing action from happening, you will produce a slight fade. As usual with The Golfing Machine, things come full circle once again.
Quote:
Daryl
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,397
Originally Posted by jim_0068
Swinging with an angled hinge is easy. It took me a while to find a way to reproduce it consistently and when i describe how to do it below some of you will probably chastize me lol.
Basically, everything in the backswing stays the same and everything up to impact stays the same.
What you have to ELIMINATE is the SWIVEL.
NO SWIVELING!
Once you get to "both arms straight" you have to have this feel of (here we go) letting the clubhead pass your hands.
Hope that helps.
Exactly what I do too. Thank G__ I'm not the only one.
Very interesting!
ICT
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Last edited by innercityteacher : 01-24-2013 at 03:14 PM.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by Stumper
The Lee Buck question is pretty simple to answer. It's the same answer for David Duval and Lee Trevino.
They played the game "shut-faced" to borrow a term from SftPS (I know it's not a very popular book in TGM circles, but I really feel think it's a solid manual to follow.). What that means is they take a strong grip, a flat left wrist and much less supination and pronation than a typical technique. Essentially, they are blocking off hooks and hit powerfades all day long.
This is (imho) the most accurate way to swing.
Also, I don't believe hooks have much to do with having your wrist flat or bowed or arched at the top, regardless of your grip. In essence, regardless of your grip, your hands will have opened to the same degree. this does not mean they open the same amount however, just that the left hand/wrist will turn to adjust the swing plane regardless of grip (ie a weak grip will open more than a strong grip). On the way down, your natural inclination is to rotate the hands/clubface the FULL 90* regardless of grip. The result? Hooks with a strong grip.
Therefore the assumption is that a flat left wrist + strong grip = closed clubface. that's not really true because the bending of the wrists can in no way open or close the clubface (we can all agree there). This leaves us in a strange place: if the clubface pointing skyward at the top isn't really closed, why does the ball hook? that answer is a bit of conjecture, but mine is this: the unbending of the left wrist/bending of the right makes it harder for the right to work back "on top" of the left (and vise versa), which is the same motion as closing the clubface. (I need a better term than working back on top...do you guys know what I'm trying to say?)
Good analysis. Bending the Left Wrist closes the clubface and makes its alignment erratict. Arching the Left Wrist actually OPENS the clubface . . . Hogan Fades Trevino fades etc.
I think you are spot on on teh "right hand working on top." Basically it's easier to keep your Right Forearm from being too high and pointing outside the Plane Line.
Nice post.
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Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Just Where Is That 'Aft' Left Thumb?
Originally Posted by ram418
It may be a little leap, but both of those pictures imply that the left hand is holding the club more in the fingers and not under the pad of the left hand. Certainly the thumb is "short" and not extended down the aft side of the shaft.
Two very prevalent misconceptions are surfacing here, and both need correcting.
First, Homer Kelley taught a 'Short' left thumb down the Aft side of the Shaft. Nowhere in The Golfing Machine is the advice given to 'extend' the left thumb down the Clubshaft ('Long' Thumb). Instead, the left forefinger is in a 'trigger finger' condition with the Shaft across the middle joint (the medial phalanx) and with the thumb near the tip. This is far different than the 'long' thumb Grip with its 'in the palm' Clubshaft and consequent 'ham-fisted' look.
Second, most TGM students know that, in the Strong Single Action Grip (10-2-B), the #3 Pressure Point is located on the Aft side (the 'behind' side) of the Clubshaft and that the left thumb is placed on this same line (10-2-0). Unfortunately, few of these students understand the Three-Dimensional alignment (Down, Out and Forward) of the On Plane Clubshaft during Impact. Accordingly, they make a contorted effort to put the thumb behind the Shaft while the Left Wrist is in its classic Adjusted Address position (Bent); the Clubshaft perpendicular to the Plane Line; and the back of the Left Hand facing the Target. This is all wrong.
Instead, the Grip should be taken in the Impact Fix condition. Here, the thumb will be located with the Left Wrist Flat; the Clubshaft leaning Forward; and the back of the Left Hand facing down the Angle of Approach (to 'right field', i.e., the 'alternate Target Line' per 7-2-3). In this alignment, the On Plane left thumb appears (and is) clearly 'behind' the Shaft (Aft). Then, when returned to the Classic Address position, the thumb will appear down the right side of the Clubshaft.
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Yoda
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
A point to ponder
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Arch your Left Wrist at Impact Fix . . . Clubface will OPEN. So maybe some people HOOK who have the Arch at the Top because the have to compensate for the alignment at the top which looks "shut" but is really OPENNING the clubface.
One interesting thing that I picked up by watching Yoda give this guy a lesson was that he was a bit Arched and as a result couldn't fully uncock to Full-Lever Extension. As a result could get completely DOWN because his Left Arm Wedge couldn't work properly.
gotta love the Machine.
Arch your left wrist at impact fix...clubface will tend to open. Correct. Actually, the clubface will be slightly delofted as well as opened slightly. Now try this...
Take your normal grip and cock the left wrist so the club comes straight up and the club and left arm form a 90 degree angle. Hold the club in front of your chest, arms parallel to the ground, clubshaft pointing to the sky, clubface "square". This mimics the left arm - clubshaft relationship at the top of the swing (90 degrees). Now arch your left wrist. The clubface will close as the shaft is axially rotated into a closed position, exactly the opposite effect as arching the wrist had on the clubface while in the address/impact position.
I picked up this interesting tidbit from a famous instructor who knows TGM inside and out, and I haven't heard anyone talk about this since.
As the number 3 accumulator angle increases or decreases, the resulting effects on the clubface change dramatically in regards to bowing (arching) or cupping (bending) the left wrist.
So, at the top of the swing, assuming a 90 degree angle between clubshaft and left arm exists, bowing the wrist shuts the clubface due to the shaft being axially rotated closed.
More food for thought...
Ben Hogan...
Cupped at the top...has an opening effect on the clubface...AND bowed at impact...also has an opening effect on the clubface...a perfect formula for a left-to-right ballflight.
That's the secret right there. It's not just the cupped left wrist at the top. It's not just the bowed left wrist at impact..it is the combination of the two.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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