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A Tale Of Two Thrusts
Originally Posted by Trigolt
Originally Posted by Yoda
Few have ever experienced the Feel of the Delayed Right Elbow Drive. Until they do, they will simply never understand...
When you say delayed right elbow drive, are you saying delaying the deliberate straightening of the right arm?
I thought we should be constantly applying extensor action throughout the entire motion, including the downstroke. How do you delay it then?
The Hitter's Extensor Action of the Right Triceps is a Below Plane Stretching Action (applied against the Left Thumb) that does not move the Left Arm. It is a Non-Accelerating Thrust that supplies Power Package Mass (6-C-0-2).
In contrast, the Right Elbow Drive is an Accelerating Thrust (6-C-0-1) directed On Plane (1-L-#10/#11) that actively Drives the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) and Sweet Spot through Impact. This Motion is anything but a 'gentle Stretching' of the Left Arm. Instead, it is a decisive -- even rigid (7-1) -- Thrust! that Uncocks both the Right Elbow and the Left Wrist.
Make no mistake: It is the Basic Drive of the Hitter's Stroke.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Why some of my shots are great and some "just ok!"
The right elbow must wait until the right forearm is on plane!
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golfingrandy
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Posts: 48
Re: Delayed Release -- Hitters Vs. Swingers
Originally Posted by Trigolt
Originally Posted by Yoda
Few have ever experienced the Feel of the Delayed Right Elbow Drive. Until they do, they will simply never understand...
When you say delayed right elbow drive, are you saying delaying the deliberate straightening of the right arm?
I thought we should be constantly applying extensor action throughout the entire motion, including the downstroke. How do you delay it then?
With Hitting, the driving does not and should not take place until the right forearm is on plane. Think about it, when you turn the right forearm is not on plane with the plane. The clubshaft is on plane with the plane. So as part of the Flying Wedges, when that right forearm gets back on plane, you can now apply that precious and precise driving on plane force.
So what do most golfers fight? They fail to get the right forearm on plane which in turn means they do not get the force on plane. They then come in to high with the right forearm and in return they must flip the club for if they did not...they would flat out miss the ball.
Homer expresses with mush clarity the other name he should have and could have used for his work. "Plane GOLF"
One more tip. The Flying Wedges dictate that the right arm must always be on the aft side of the club.
Hope this aids a small bit.
Randy
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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Re: Delayed Release -- Hitters Vs. Swingers
Originally Posted by Richw
If I understand this correctly, extensor action, as per 6-c-0-2, is purely the stretching of the left arm and 6-c-0-1 is the thrust applied by the right forearm. And the thrust is not applied until the right forearm is on plane, which should be when the forearm is almost at hip height. Good so far?
If I am correct, then the first 6-8" down from the top is merely the pull from the hip slide?
Rich,
The following may sound incomplete or I should say, you may be looking for more but lets think about it. Contrary to some popular beliefs, some of these are in "the know" as it pertains to Homer and The Golfing Machine, the Right Forearm supplies nothing as it pertains to force. Huh? Yep, forearms are used for gripping things (It is great when one has friends in the medical field and they play golf for free at your club ). Though Homer may not have been a doctor, he never the less got it right. Would you expect anything less. NO!
More importantly, when does one begin to drive? Can one view a location to monitor? The answer is yes. This is very good news for golfers. Again, think about it. For the Right Forearm to get on plane, what needs to first be on plane? You betcha'! The right elbow. Now the a biggie! What straightens the right elbow? The right tricep. Now do a search in your book about triceps. Rich, there is no fog here on the beach. Darn, is that where a so called "Bash" is going to be held? LOL!!!
Hope this helps a little more.
Randy
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
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Right Forearm And Tricep -- Incubator Twins
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
The driving action in right arm swinging or true hitting comes from the right forearm....per 1-F. The triceps supply muscle power but the trigger is the right forearm. I guarantee you, if you start focusing on your triceps to drive the club through impact you will eventually create a condition of automatic clubhead throwaway and generate flat golf shots....no power!!! IF you don't believe me....let her rip with tricep thrust. I believe you will not find one phrase in the book that says right tricep thrust.....you will find right tricep muscle power and right tricep speed....all thrusting comments are exclusively right forearm....just checkout section 7-3....right forearm thrust is mentioned and no where will you find right tricep thrust or a driving right tricep.
That's why section 10-20 is called trigger types...something has to trigger the release of the power package!!!
DG
The following six points may help those Incubating this issue:
1. The Right Triceps is useless without the Right Forearm. And vice versa.
2. Nowhere in The Golfing Machine does Homer Kelley suggest that the Golfer use the Right Triceps consciously to produce the Major Basic Strokes. Instead, he uses the Magic of the Right Forearm and Elbow.
3. The Golfer also uses the Right Forearm to monitor the "dynamically in-line" On Plane Feel (2-F) and the Three-Dimensional Tracing of the Straight Plane Line (2-N-O).
4. While the six published editions of TGM do not contain the exact wording Right Triceps Thrust, the intent is clear. That intent is made certain in the unpublished 7th edition's revision to page 38. A new Paragraph Three reads as follows and should be written into your Book:
"Power package Muscle Power is almost entirely Right Triceps Thrust straightening the Right Elbow to furnish both Extensor Action and #1 Accumulator Power."
5. Awareness of an Active Right Arm is achieved only through monitoring an Active Right Elbow (7-20).
6. The Hitter's fundamental Release Trigger is the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). This pure Right Arm Push cannot be accomplished except by the Right Triceps and its instrument, the Right Forearm, and it cannot be monitored except through an awareness of an Active Right Elbow.
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Yoda
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
This just pasting stuff is sort of fun, however in my case I am happy to say it will be used, misused, abused, and confused several times before lowering my hcp to a +2 in my dreams then in reality!
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Yoda
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Left WRIST Throw-Out / Right ELBOW Drive-Out
Originally Posted by Daryl
I have "Throw out" tattooed on my Left Wrist and "Drive out" Tattooed on my Right Forearm.
Close, Daryl . . . very close.
Can you move that tatoo to your Right Elbow? It is the Elbow, not the Forearm, that is the #1 Power Accumulator (and that supplies the Right Arm Drive).
Then again, you probably couldn't see the words if they were tatooed on your elbow.
So, never mind!
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
The Basic Motion (Stage One) involves a miniaturized Stroke (12-0) -- approximately two feet back and two feet through. It puts in place the Basic Body Position and the Power Package alignments. It is a One-Accumulator Stroke, and that one Accumulator may be either the Right Arm (Accumulator #1 / Hitting) or the Left ( Accumulator #4 / Swinging).
I have elected to begin the Stroke from the Half-and-Half Fix (10-8-C). Here, the Body is in Standard Address Position, and the Hands are in their Impact Location and Position. This is the second of four Address Position alternatives listed in 10-9-0; namely, "Both at selected Impact" (10-9-0-2).
Let's examine this Selected Impact Address Position (10-9-B) and its Power Package alignments and then the Basic Stroke itself.
The Body
1. Square Stance and Plane Line.
2. Feet close together with Weight slightly toward heels.
3. Appropriate Knee and Waist Bend.
4. Hips Square.
5. Head centered.
The Arms
1. In Normal Position, i.e., Left Arm Straight and Right Arm Bent (6-A-4).
2. Right Forearm On Plane (2-F).
3. Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges established and properly aligned (6-B-3-0-1).
The Hands
1. Strong Single-Action Grip (10-2-B).
2. In Impact Location.
3. Left Wrist Flat.
The Club
1. Forward-Leaning Clubshaft.
2. Clubface Square.
The Stroke
1. Only one of the Arm Accumulators (Right Arm or Left) is active in this Stage One. The Hand Action Accumulators (Left Wrist Cock and Uncock and Left Hand Turn and Roll) are introduced in Stage Two (Acquired Motion). I have chosen to use the Right Arm and the bending and straightening of the Right Elbow to lift and lower the Left Arm (7-3) and to provide the Basic Thrust of the Stroke. Thus, this is a Hitting Stroke. Had I elected to Swing, I would have used my Left Arm to Pull the Club through Impact (Pull Minor Basic Stroke / 10-3-D). Also, I may have used the Standard Address Position with an Extensor Action Takeaway (6-B-1-D) to Flatten the Left Wrist (and Bend the Right) in Start-Up. Had that been the case, Backstroke Arm Motion would have been minimal. Downstroke action and alignments would have remained the same.
2. Note that my Right Shoulder moves little, if at all, throughout the Stroke. That's because I am using my bending Right Arm -- and not my rocking Body -- to move the Club away from the Ball. In Start Up, I apply Extensor Action against Pressure Point #1 (heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb), and I use my Right Forearm and bending Right Elbow to "Carry" (7-9) the Left Arm and Club (Primary Lever Assembly) to the Top (Up, Back and In in a true Three-Dimensional Start-Up). The Right Forearm Fans (about the Elbow) and Traces the Straight Plane Line. Had this been a Swing, I would have used a "Swing-Back" Motion instead of the Hitter's "Carry-Back" Motion. Also, when using Standard Address position of the Hands, I would initiate Extensor Action using Pressure Point #3 [Right Hand index finger] to pull the Left Arm and Clubshaft In-Line. But no matter which Motion is employed, the geometry of the Right Arm and Elbow Action -- how they 'look' to an observer -- is identical. All this is in stark contrast to most golfers whose Basic Motion is to freeze their Right Arm and Elbow and then to rock their Body back-and-forth to move the Club (Paw Minor Basic Stroke / 10-3-H). (I used to do this.)
3. During the Start Down, I Load my bent Right Elbow against Pressure Point #3 (Drive Loading / 10-19-A). From the Top, I simply Push radially (sidewise) the entire Left Arm and Club Assembly through Impact (Right Arm Throw / 10-20-B). When Swinging, I Load my Level Left Wrist against Pressure Point #2, the last three fingers of the Left Hand (Drag Loading / 10-19-C). I then simply Pull longitudinally (lengthwise) only the Club itself through Impact (Left Wrist Throw / 10-20-E).
4. At Impact, I have returned precisely to my Half-and-Half Fix Address Position alignments. The Body -- including the Head -- has remained Motionless and the Power Package (Arms, Hands and Club) has returned to its Impact alignments. Compare Photos #1 and #14. They are identical.
5. Through Impact, my Right Elbow Drive-Out against Pressure Point #3 (and possibly #1) has automatically produced Angled Hinge Action (10-10-C). That is, the Flat Left Wrist has remained perpendicular (Vertical) to the Angled Plane of the Stroke. This Action is executed as a 'No Roll' Feel and produces a 'Half-Roll' of the Clubface at the end of the Follow-Through. In contrast, the Swinger's Centrifugal Force Throw-Out will automatically produce Horizontal Hinge Action (10-10-D). That is, the Flat Left Wrist will remain perpendicular (Vertical) to the Horizontal Plane. This Action is executed as a 'Roll' Feel and produces a 'Full-Roll' of the Clubface. All Hinge Actions MUST be executed on the Straight Line Delivery Line. This is the essential requirement for all Golf Strokes and why only Items #22 and #39 are capitalized in the Mechanical Checklist For All Strokes (12-3-0).
6. My bent Right Elbow at Impact continues its Drive toward the Plane Line (NOT toward the Target!) during the Follow-Through (1-L-10 and -15). (I missed this but because I am at Impact Fix and stay on it, I blunder into this often.) The Angled Hinge Action has insured that the Left Arm and Clubshaft have remained In-Line and that there is perfect Rhythm (RPM).
7. The Stroke concludes when my Right Arm has fully-straightened (6-G-0-C). This is the end of the Follow-Through (Section 11), and because it is also the end of the Stroke, it constitutes the Finish (Section 12). Since the Thrust has continued Down Plane until the Right Elbow has fully-straightened, there properly has been no 'Upstroke.' This despite the fact that the Club itself has passed Low Point (opposite the Left Shoulder) and has begun its own Upward, Inward and Forward journey to the Finish.
Work on your Basic Motion. Pay attention to each Component and its alignments. This is the foundation-stone of your Stroke and of your Game.
It is no less than The Gateway to your best Golf.
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Yoda
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"Golf is not a subject but a motor skill which can only be learned and not taught." - Michael Hebron
"The Body, Arms and Hands have specific assignments during the Golf Stroke, and they must be coordinated into one efficient motion." - Lynn Blake
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 07-30-2012 at 12:19 AM.
I know this is important, also, and I have to ruminate on this.
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Zero Pivot And the Right Shoulder
Originally Posted by golfbulldog
...for there to be no pivot the right shoulder needs to be preset in its impact degree of "downness"... otherwise the right shoulder needs to move down to maintain lag sensation at pp3 and this movement automatically creates pivot.
SO zero pivot can be done but 12 inches back and forward at most and ball needs to be back in stance and right shoulder down at impact height...and impact address probably better for both hit nd swing... to ensure no pivot and right shoulder preset in down impact position...
The Right Shoulder is part of both the Pivot and the Power Package. Therefore, when Power Package Thrust alone actuates the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club), Shoulder Motion does not violate a Zero Pivot requirement (2-H).
If, on the other hand, the Shoulder is Pulled into Start Down by the Hip Action, then there has been Pivot Thrust and at least a Partial Pivot.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
1. Use Angled Hinging for the Right Arm Only Stroke. Feel the On Plane Paddlewheel nature of the Right Forearm action from Release (8-9) to Both Arms Straight (8-11). The is the 'Underhand Pitch, Motion and Feel' (2-N-0) that keeps the Clubshaft On Plane.
2. There is no 'dual' Angled Hinge Action because the one Angled Hinge governs both Clubshaft and Clubface. For all practical purposes, Horizontal and Vertical Hinging will always be 'dual.' That's because you need two hinges: one to control the Clubshaft and another to control the Clubface.
3. In the shorter Non-Pivot Strokes, Swingers should use the Magical Right Forearm Takeaway (7-3) on the Backstroke; then, on the Downstroke, use the Minor Basic Left Arm Pull Stroke (10-3-D) to Pull the Club through Impact. In the longer Strokes -- from the Top -- they should emphasize the Right Shoulder Turn thrust of the #4 Accumulator (6-B-4-0/A/B/C) to 'crank up the gyroscope' of Centrifugal Force.
Hitters -- with or without Shoulder Turn Thrust -- should use the Right Arm Throw (10-20-B) to Trigger the Release, and then use Right Elbow Drive (6-B-1-0/A/B/C) to Push the Club through Impact. If you are more comfortable with this latter action, then use it and learn The Joy of Hitting. A technique that emphasizes Right Arm Power is more 'natural' to most of us, and because of the active sensing of Muscular Thrust -- as opposed to the passive sensing of Centrifugal Force -- it is the best way to learn to use the Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point. The key to the effective use of the Right Arm is learning to straighten it without Flattening the Bent Right Wrist. Experiment and see which way works best for you.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Join Date: Jan 2005
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12-5-1...It Is What It Is
Originally Posted by tongzilla
I didn't mean the full fireworks e.g. spinning the flywheel and Right Shoulder Drive to Load PP#4, etc...
I meant using just a little Pivot to give that Left Arm a little mini blast off, as opposed to using your left arm muscles to move to left arm (ala Ben Doyle...that's a discussion for another day )
The Right Shoulder Turn Thrust drives the Left Arm in a Pivot Stroke. And the Shoulders are a Dual Agent (2-H, 7-13), i.e., they are part of both the Power Package and the Pivot. So, Shoulder Motion (and Action) does not violate the requirements for Zero Pivot.
However...
In addition to Zero Pivot, the Basic Motion of 12-5-1 specifies that the Shoulder Turn also be Zero. Remember, this is a tiny shot. As I've previously stated, everybody wants to make this motion bigger than it is. Per 6-B-4-0 and 10-3-D, the Left Arm motion can be independent of the Pivot.
Point of information: In the as-yet-unpublished 7th edition, Homer Kelley changed the Zero Pivot requirement of 12-5-2 to Minimal Pivot. In addition to the already permitted Downstroke Shoulder Turn, this expansion satisfies the need for the Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm to pick up a little Body Momentum Transfer from a 'thrown' Right Shoulder via the Hip Action of 7-15. In addition, it also satisfies more than a little 'psychological need.'
Bottom line: I'm all for the Swinger's 'mini-blast-off' in 12-5-2 (Acquired Motion) and the major-blastoff of 12-5-3 (Total Motion), but...
In the Basic Motion of 12-5-1...
Nada.
The Left Arm is on its own.
Which, of course, is why Hitting -- Right Elbow Drive -- is so attractive in the Short Strokes.
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Yoda
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 07-30-2012 at 01:06 AM.
This video is my key to swinging by pushing/throwing/firing the right arm/shoulder DOWN AT THE BASE LINE OF THE PLANE and by implication the left wrist straight down after the Pivot!
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 07-30-2012 at 01:44 AM.
Linear Mode
