Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,440
Extensor Action And Adjusted Address
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
In 12-3 you'll see that Homer listed extensor action in almost every part of the page. As a hitter, I skip adjusted address by starting at impact fix. Extensor action is what places pressure against the #1 pressure point. The only time that I don't keep pressure against the penny is in the finish. The flying wedges are still assembled, but the pressure isn't the same.
Yoda told me that in 12-3, extensor action could have been added in the adjusted address position, which would support ALWAYS keeping pressure on the penny.(until finish)
[Bold by Yoda.]
Luke is right.
Extensor Action -- stretching the Left Arm via the Heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb -- is indeed present in Adjusted Address (8-3). However, the reason the Mechanical Checklist (12-3) does not stress Extensor Action in that Section (of the Stroke) is that such Action ultimately will Flatten the Swinger's Bent Left Wrist. In which case, with the Left Wrist no longer Bent, Adjusted Address (10-9-A) will have become an Impact Address (10-9-B).
And you cannot be in both at the same time.
So, there you go:
Easy on the Extensor Action in Adjusted Address, boys. But 'let'er rip' in Start Up, because that Bent Left Wrist has got to get Flat...
No later than the Start Down!
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Yoda
Quote:
densikat
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by nicklin
FANTASTIC-a question.Can there be any pulling with the left hand/arm through IMPACT while driving with the right arm?if so does this help flatten the left wrist?this is for a hitters action.
Nope its either pulling or pushing. Pushing against a pulling left arm would jeopardise your precision alignments
Quote:
Martee
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lenoir, NC
Posts: 572
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
"Holding on" will keep you from applying Maximum #1 pressure. That's the way that I thought of clubhead lag for years. In fact, that's what I was taught.
You can quote me on this:
"LAG PRESSURE IS CREATED, NOT SOMETING THAT YOU TRY TO KEEP"
You really have to learn to DRIVE the #1 pressure point. I've given this advice a number of times, but it really works for most:
Place a penny in between the #1 pressure point and the left thumb. Try to keep the pressure applied against the penny during the whole swing(hit). Make the #1 the direct drive and allow the #3 to recieve the indirect pressure. MANY try to make #3 the direct drive, and in the end, flatten the right wrist.
I wish someone would have told me that years ago. I used to try to feel #3 and try and drive it. Results were terrible. I gave up on hitting and stayed with swinging which when recently viewed it appeared a mixed mess.
Actually I don't believe I ever really felt #3 correctly till Yoda had me do some drills. Once felt, Once learn, I definitely focus on #1 when setting up to do a hit.
That penny drill should do the trick, simple but really effective.
Damn you guys are good....
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Good Golfing
On my longest drives, between 280 and 310 yards, I really tried to drive my roll my right shoulder and elbow as far to both arms straight as physically possible almost turning myself completely around! I thought that the feeling I was looking for was driving my right arm as far forward as possible but instead I now realize, I hope, that the extensor action down on the left thumb maintains the drive through the ball, started by the rolling right shoulder and elbow completely compressing it and causing the added power and precision. As always, I will report on this insight being applied in a round of golf!
ICT
Other confirmations of Swinging and Hitting proper techniques to me:
Quote:
YodasLuke
Lynn Blake Certified Master Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,314
Pulling and pushing
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe "Pulling welds the left arm to the chest, and pushing pushes the left arm off the chest."
You are talking about two different times here. When Hitting, the Left Arm should also be welded to the chest at the point in the Swing that the Left Arm is welded to the chest. Otherwise you've started pushing too soon. The two strokes are supposedly geometrically equivalent.
I was assuming he was talking about downstroke, release, and impact, as the swinger maintains #4 in the downstroke. The 4 barrell hitter starts with #4, but the right shoulder becomes a platform in the downstroke from which the right elbow can explode, thus exhausting the pressure in #4.
Additionally, geometric equivalents they are, physical equivalents they are not.
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Yoda knows...and he taught me!
For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.
#20
03-08-2005, 10:30 PM
12 piece bucket
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,377
Re: Pulling and pushing at the same time?
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
Originally Posted by nicklin
FANTASTIC-a question.Can there be any pulling with the left hand/arm through IMPACT while driving with the right arm?if so does this help flatten the left wrist?this is for a hitters action.
Pulling welds the left arm to the chest, and pushing pushes the left arm off the chest. You can't have both happening at the same time. Validation from Lee Buck's out of print instruction book Groove Your Golf Swing My Way:
LET YOUR LEFT ARM LEAVE YOUR SIDE
To keep your clubhead moving down your flight path a little longer past impact, you must let your left arm leave your left side as you swing through the ball. When this happens correctly you'll feel your right shoulder working under instead of around. The extent that the clubhead can stay on the flight path . . . even a fraction of an inch more extension of on-path movement will improve your chances for starting your shots in the direction you intend.
Straight from some circles the best dag-gone ball strike to walk the planet.
Bucket
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Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-12-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Keep your friends close and your flying wedges and your right elbow even closer ( attached to your right hip when chipping and in bunkers)!
I was on 11 greens in regulation or fringes today and necked 8 shots!
I was in 3 bunkers and took 6 shots to get out.
I had 7 pars and 6 bogies and on the other 5 holes I was 10 over! I shot an 88!
I got lucky winning a closest to the pin on a long par 3 where I was 10 feet from the hole making me + $5 for the day, went home got out the shag bag, formed my wedges, anchored my right elbow and dragged my mop. I also closed my wedges a bit!
Any other suggestions are welcome! My tee game was rock solid as were most of my second shots. Formed my wedges, covered my club head path (6 oclock on the ball was my choice, varied open or closed face) and rolled my back shoulder straight down!! Little draw or fade as chosen and about 240 -250 all day carry.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-13-2012 at 06:24 PM.
Notes to self like always....let your left arm leave and make A FULL EXTENSION TO BOTH ARMS STRAIGHT!!! I was so delighted with the simplicity of covering and rolling on the base line plane that I knew I could shoot at the green all day. I had other problems of course but that is being addressed.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I think that what a lot of amateurs are missing is a real procedure to put everything in place for the shot. Like a mechanical checklist to train in practice session, get the feel of a correct setup and then check for the correct feel at address on the course. Go explicitely through the list if something feels wrong. That would save me quite a few shots I think. Then a key for the swing, like you "both arms straight". I also like golfgnome's "Basic Motion above the ball" waggles in one of the videos.
Swinging with Horizontal Hinge now or still Angled ?
I think that what a lot of amateurs are missing is a real procedure to put everything in place for the shot. Like a mechanical checklist to train in practice session, get the feel of a correct setup and then check for the correct feel at address on the course. Go explicitely through the list if something feels wrong. That would save me quite a few shots I think. Then a key for the swing, like you "both arms straight". I also like golfgnome's "Basic Motion above the ball" waggles in one of the videos.
Swinging with Horizontal Hinge now or still Angled ?
I preview the Impact of the Angle Hinge for each full shot over the top. It is very comforting knowing the mechanics are right and had a good chipping/pitching session today with my wedges formed and right elbow anchored to my side.
What checks do you usually use?
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Remember I'm working all by myself, with the book, videos and posts from here, so there's a lot I do wrong probably. That's going to change hopefuly as I've scheduled 3 half days with an AI next week. I'm Hitting from Impact Fix.
I have a procedure to take the grip and form the wedges by taking the right hand grip with the club horizontal in front of me. Then in the practice stroke I focus on maintaining the forearm perpendicaular to the plane at Start Up (I tend to roll the club inside) and around impact, so rehearse Hinging. At Impact Fix, I try to align the right forearm to a point on the base of the plane (kind of an imprecise Angle of Approach / Aimpoint Fix as I haven't figured out exactly what it should look like).
I noticed in practice session that reheasing the Hinge to Follow Through often lead to a better stroke so I was thinking of imprementing that as waggle over the ball like golfgnome.
Remember I'm working all by myself, with the book, videos and posts from here, so there's a lot I do wrong probably. That's going to change hopefuly as I've scheduled 3 half days with an AI next week. I'm Hitting from Impact Fix.
I have a procedure to take the grip and form the wedges by taking the right hand grip with the club horizontal in front of me. Then in the practice stroke I focus on maintaining the forearm perpendicaular to the plane at Start Up (I tend to roll the club inside) and around impact, so rehearse Hinging. At Impact Fix, I try to align the right forearm to a point on the base of the plane (kind of an imprecise Angle of Approach / Aimpoint Fix as I haven't figured out exactly what it should look like).
I noticed in practice session that reheasing the Hinge to Follow Through often lead to a better stroke so I was thinking of imprementing that as waggle over the ball like golfgnome.
Etzwane, do you know these 5 "Address Videos?" They are like $30 or so and downloadable from this site and very helpful.
One of the things Lynn stressed when I was with him was aiming sticks (little skinny brightly colored plastic sticks) and he set those out to cover the Baseline of the Plane and stance line. They helped me unlearn lots of bad habits and to this day I have 2 bright orange ones that I use every time on the course when on the range or putting. Sometimes, if I an having trouble, I simply imagine the bright orange lines are forming a line or a column I can shoot into or putt into and just ignore everything else.
From Impact Fix I am very careful not to roll my flat left wrist though the weight of the club head seems to make it want to. The Angle Hinge for Hitting is a very short backward movement for me; it feels absurdly short but I can really drive that ball and keep it in play off the tee, and shoot it to the middle of the greens on my next shot. Sometimes, it feels like I barely get my RFT or covering the baseline of the plane to chest high! Then I hip bump and drive my right elbow and the ball really takes off and is controllable. Sometimes, I imagine I am rolling my right elbow on my side and under a shelf created by my EA taught left arm. Remember, You can and probably should close the club face a bit on longer irons, hybrids, woods and driver. Experiment and wail away on that ball!
Another thought or two? Get real good with your chipping, pitches and bunker play. Your stroke or pattern, whichever you use, will quickly get you near the green or in the bunkers and if you can get up and down you will feel like Godzilla, in a good way! Lynn has some videos and really helped me in person. And a guy named Shawn Clement on You Tube has some very descriptive bunker videos. He has a lot of videos but nothing I have seen surpasses Lynn's personal, written and video instructions.
Keep us updated on what you learn and what seems effective and why, ok?
ICT
Big things small swings!
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-17-2012 at 11:28 PM.
Open the club face 30 degrees or to 1 o'clock and concentrate on shooting the sand with your shot to gauge the length and direction of the shot. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE BALL, JUST SHOOT THE SAND AND THE BALL WILL GO THERE!
Boy I hope that works!
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Thanks for sharing ! I have sticks to make the practice station I saw in a video with John Riegger but for some reason I have not been using them in the last few month. I'll put them back in the bag!
Originally Posted by innercityteacher
Etzwane, do you know these 5 "Address Videos?" They are like $30 or so and downloadable from this site and very helpful.
I've seen these mentioned, are they with Lynn and Ted ? I never could find them and assumed they were pulled from the site. I have Alignment Golf and the video with Brian Gay.
Things to try... FROM IMPACT FIX OR ADJUSTED ADDRESS... TO KEEP MY ALIGNMENTS PURE AFTER SHOOTING A MIDDLING 86!
RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE---Right elbow drives and un-cocks the left wrist. clarifying "quiet knees, quiet feet, extensor action..."
OR
RFT cocks the left wrist on plane...HANDS STAY STILL BELOW SHOULDER ON PLANE and you simply step left to swing and use the Horizontal Hinge by preparing to keep your left elbow following the the step left.
DO YOU SEE IT? ARE YOU PREPARED TO UN-COCK THE LEFT WRIST????
IN ANY CASE KEEP THE HANDS STILL ON PLANE AT OR BELOW THE LEFT SHOULDER SEE THE BASE LINE OF THE PLANE AND UNCOCK ON IT THEN ROLL EITHER THROUGH CENTRIFUGAL FORCE OR THE DRIVING RIGHT ELBOW!!!
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 08-17-2012 at 11:29 PM.
( attached to your right hip when chipping and in bunkers)! 
I shot an 88! 
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