Watch for Eldrick to turn up on Sean Foley or Mike Abbott's door step . . . he played practice rounds with their respective crews at the Playaz . . . .
I am confused about the plane and parallel planes. I have watched countless swings on video and especially Hogan's swing. At the top of the backswing it looks like Hogan's club was on a plane parallel to the shaft plane at address but above it. The butt of the club is not pointing at the target line.
I understood it as if the club is on the left (leading) arm plane, the clubshaft will point at the target line until it is parallel to the ground and target line (P1). Then as the club continues back, the butt end will point at the target line.
If the club is on the right (rear) arm plane, it will point at the target line until that position of parallel to the target line and parallel to the ground (P1), then as it goes back, the club will point outside the target line and be parallel to the shaft plane but above it.
I hope I didn't confuse everyone but can anyone shed some light on this or opine on it. Thanks
Watch for Eldrick to turn up on Sean Foley or Mike Abbott's door step . . . he played practice rounds with their respective crews at the Playaz . . . .
I am confused about the plane and parallel planes. I have watched countless swings on video and especially Hogan's swing. At the top of the backswing it looks like Hogan's club was on a plane parallel to the shaft plane at address but above it. The butt of the club is not pointing at the target line.
I understood it as if the club is on the left (leading) arm plane, the clubshaft will point at the target line until it is parallel to the ground and target line (P1). Then as the club continues back, the butt end will point at the target line.
If the club is on the right (rear) arm plane, it will point at the target line until that position of parallel to the target line and parallel to the ground (P1), then as it goes back, the club will point outside the target line and be parallel to the shaft plane but above it.
I hope I didn't confuse everyone but can anyone shed some light on this or opine on it. Thanks
Hi Scott,
In my opinion, Mr. Haney's parallel planes are outside the box of what Mr. Kelley is teaching us. Left or right side driven, one end of the shaft should always be pointing at the baseline. Am I saying Hank Haney is wrong? Absolutely not. Haney is a wonderful, respected teacher. Simply a different idea on how to get it done. I will respectfully stick with Yoda's interpretation as I have found it to work for me and my students.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Thank for the reply Kev, but if I may, I have a follow up question. Is the parallel plane theory in the yellow book? Is it explained but not what Yoda teaches or is it just not in the TGM at all? I am asking becasue I thought that TGM covered everything? If that is the case, the nthis will only bolster my belief that TGM is best thing I can think of in terms of a golf swing.
I am genuinely confused and would apprecaited any direction or input.
Thanks
Thank for the reply Kev, but if I may, I have a follow up question. Is the parallel plane theory in the yellow book? Is it explained but not what Yoda teaches or is it just not in the TGM at all? I am asking becasue I thought that TGM covered everything? If that is the case, the nthis will only bolster my belief that TGM is best thing I can think of in terms of a golf swing.
I am genuinely confused and would apprecaited any direction or input.
Thanks
Scott,
It's not in the book...
An on plane clubshaft through the impact interval is an imperative. The easiest way to be on plane through the impact interval is to be on plane the entire swing, no compensations needed.
There are great players who do not follow this advise, and to try to change them may be fatal. However, making the compensations take lots of time and practice. Compensating for bad habits, as Yoda says you can, but why?
Kevin
1-C GEOMETRY
It’s not the theorems but merely the shapes and lines of Plane Geometry – familiar to all – that are used herein. Most useful are lines and relationships that are flat, parallel, horizontal, vertical, straight, On Plane or centered because their precision can be checked visually – there is no question of degree in such alignments.
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Thank for the reply Kev, but if I may, I have a follow up question. Is the parallel plane theory in the yellow book? Is it explained but not what Yoda teaches or is it just not in the TGM at all? I am asking becasue I thought that TGM covered everything? If that is the case, the nthis will only bolster my belief that TGM is best thing I can think of in terms of a golf swing.
I am genuinely confused and would apprecaited any direction or input.
Thanks
Rest assured Scottcuban. Hank Haney's procedure is allowed for and included in TGM. See the quote below, paragraph 2, last sentence.
Keepin mind that for every procedure, there is an intended purpose and unintended consequences. If you adopt a procedure for your swing, and think that the intended purpose is other than it's actual function, then the unintended consequences will probably need compensations to allow it to function to meet the actual function of the component.
Quote:
7-7 PLANE ANGLE VARIATIONS Due to personal preference, natural inclination of the pressure of conditions it is not always possible or advisable to adhere to a single Inclined Plane classification throughout the entire Stroke. Players often – consciously or subconsciously – employ more than one of the “natural” Planes. The Shoulder Planes are the more consciously employed – the Elbow Plane the more – almost totally – subconsciously used. Vaguely or incorrectly defined Planes and Variations must be eliminated. The list is restricted to those of fairly common usage – good and bad. Other than the Right Shoulder positions, only the Elbow reference point has any great general usefulness. The “Hand Angle” is emergency or special purpose application. Wrist Action and the selected Inclined Plane must be compatible – watch especially with “No Wristcock” Strokes.
During any Shift of Planes the Clubshaft is held On Plane with the Plane Line as though the Plane itself were moving to the new location. Other controlled procedures that achieve On Plane Impact may be more difficult but need not be deemed improper. Such as positioning the Clubshaft at The Top of the Plane Angle intended for Release. And study 2-N.
Always view the Plane as rectangular (with four ninety degree corners), so, depending on the terrain and the situation at hand, the lower edge may be downhill, uphill, level, partially underground or above ground but always with both Plane Lines (Impact and Low Point) parallel to the upper and lower edges. But tilted, rotated or whatever, always have an Inclined Plane and a straight Plane Line. Remember, you must always adjust the Plane Angle and the Ball Position to bring the Right Forearm positioning into agreement with the intended purpose – the one Forearm MUST represent both Alignments. Also study 2-J-1 and 2-J-3 in this connection.
Rest assured Scottcuban. Hank Haney's procedure is allowed for and included in TGM. See the quote below, paragraph 2, last sentence.
Keepin mind that for every procedure, there is an intended purpose and unintended consequences. If you adopt a procedure for your swing, and think that the intended purpose is other than it's actual function, then the unintended consequences will probably need compensations to allow it to function to meet the actual function of the component.
The above underline by Daryl.
Excellent post Daryl, and I stand corrected. Mr. Kelley suggests what he feels is optimal, but also works with ideas that are not. It's all there...
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
What Hank described a POSITION that parallel and above the shift plane might be exist but his action as described in 10-7-c of the yellow book is easy for reference.
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If you cannot take the shoulder down the clubshaft plane, you must take along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two!
D, It should be pointed out that it is not to be found in 1-L!!!!!!! Per 1-L-18. So it is not a Machine concept. A characteristic of all Geometrically and Mechanically correct golf strokes.
But........there are a lot of weird moves that if mastered it can produce a mechanically sound impact. They may be geometrically complicated though. You wouldnt want to change Furyks action, but you wouldnt want to start a golf school teaching it either. Or switch the world number one over to it, for that matter.
Now there's a good rumor: "Tiger to start working with Furyk's dad on a swing over haul".
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