Thank you all for replying, I really appreciate it.
I may be misunderstanding this matter (so correct me if I'm wrong), but if the ball is starting left due to a closed club-face only, shouldn't the divot still be pointing straight along the target line? Due to all my divots pointing left of the target line on my misses, I just assumed it was a path/plane issue. I generally hit pull hooks but occasionally hit pull slices as well.
That makes perfect sense, thank you.
Should I research the D-Plane more (if this is what you're referring to)?
I will try to get some more video (with face-on and down-the-line angles) uploaded tonight.
I agree in regards to the pivot. However, I don't know how to execute it correctly. I have tried the drills in "Alignment Golf" but it hasn't worked for me. This was my downfall whilst trying "Stack and Tilt" as well, as I was unable to slide my hips laterally.
I will look into it, thanks.
This has been my main effort (consciously swinging in-to-out) since I am unable to execute the pivot correctly. At times it feels like I am swinging out 45 degrees. However, would this be considered a compensation or is it a feeling that is making me perform the mechanics correctly?
I'll also look in this, thanks.
"Impact Fix" confuses me slightly. Is it just to create a feeling of impact before playing the shot or is there more to it?
Hard to say with just the divot could depend on ball position as well in respect to low point. you certainly can research d-plane and trackman too . . . . but just think of the face angle magnet thingie . . . the ball is generally going to start where that thing is pointing. So if your balls are starting left it's because the face is looking over there . . . could be due to it just plain being looking there or because it's rotating too fast.
Mike says you are over . . . . not sure how you can tell that from face on . . . . but you could be a reckon. Put the DTL up. You do some nice stuff.
Pivot: You're pulling down with your arms and shoulders and then you start your hip turn. You will always come over the top with that combination. You have two choices. Stop pivoting or stop pulling with your arms and shoulders.
Startdown Waggles are the best drill for the over the top problem to my mind. The best video on them is in the Premium Address Routine Video with Ted Fort. It'll cost you about 20 bucks but is well worth it. On the range I do two of them for every pull shot and then fire one off quickly without any added thinking. Those things work.
Here is a great photo of Hogan employing a Hip Slide with a Delayed Hip Turn. Notice how his left hip has slid over to above the outside of his left foot.
Mike says you are over . . . . not sure how you can tell that from face on . . . . but you could be a reckon. Put the DTL up. You do some nice stuff.
Yo, Captain emeritus threadjacka! Check out post #9 - down the line - enclosed! Some nice stuff? You said you short circuited your keyboard with drewl! The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
P.S. Watch out for the Canadian - he's dangerous!
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Yo, Captain emeritus threadjacka! Check out post #9 - down the line - enclosed! Some nice stuff? You said you short circuited your keyboard with drewl! The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
You know whats really dangerous is the fact that we're all on this one thread together.........posting our top secret stuff. Shut er down Bagger, before Wikileaks publishes these posts and the future of golf is altered forever.
Yo, Captain emeritus threadjacka! Check out post #9 - down the line - enclosed! Some nice stuff? You said you short circuited your keyboard with drewl! The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
P.S. Watch out for the Canadian - he's dangerous!
Just saw it . . . . .
This would be my analysis . . .
His downswing is slightly over his backswing handpath . . . no biggie . . . he may be over just a lil' bit . . . but to me the fix is . . .
MORE HIP TURN . . . HAND PATH NEEDS TO BE DEEPER . . . THEN HE CAN SWING HIS HANDS OVER THE BACKSTROKE HANDPATH BUT NOT BE "OVER THE TOP". LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE SWING. ALIGNMENTS ARE NICE IN THE POWER PACKAGE AND THE CLUBFACE LINES UP NICE WITH THE LEFT ARM. Turn the hips more feel like the hands never come up because you already know how to swing them up. If you fix the backstroke the down stroke will fix itself. Where your hands are at the top if you turn at all they are going to get pulled out and over. But you only get them over the backstroke handpath slightly which is really good. So if you get them deeper you can make the same move and still stay on the original planeline/angle. You ain't no over the top wiper . . . you just need to fix your backstroke and you're GOLDEN.
Here are two "extreme" examples . . . you're obviously not as "up" as Furyk . . . but this will give you an illustration. Note from where Furyk is at the top if he "spins" or turns and drags his hands out . . . you'd have never heard of him. He has to swing his arms down SUPER FAST (release #4 the fastest) so he doesn't come over.
On the other hand Mr. Hogan is much more "deep" . . he does swing his hands over his backstroke handpath but he is so deep that he doesn't end up "over" he ends up right on plane.
A couple of other things to notice are the differences in the knee bend (allowing the hips to turn). Hogan has MUCH MORE hip turn and the right knee has straightened where Furyk hasn't straightened much at all.
As far as your "startdown" . . . looked pretty nice to me . . . you just need a different place to "startdown" from . . . turn your hips on the b.s. and feel like your arms never get above your belt . . . film it and see what it looks like.
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 07-27-2010 at 09:25 AM.
The last month has served as my introduction to learning "The Golfing Machine". Although I know my basics (such as the three imperatives/essentials, hinge actions, flying wedges, etc.), I am having difficulty analysing my own pattern/stroke/swing and identifying mechanical faults. I was hoping you guys could provide assistance.
Before I describe the issues I am experiencing, I feel that I should provide a summary of my situation. I am 25 years old, 6'4", have above average athletic ability (based on other sports, not necessarily golf), and currently play off a 3.7 handicap (although, I haven't played much golf in the last three years). My goal is to progress as far as my abilities will allow.
The current issues I have with my pattern/stroke/swing revolve around consistency. I am satisfied with the distance that I strike the golf ball (although, who is going to say no to more distance?), so I would really like to focus on increasing accuracy and decreasing the severity of my misses.
My current pattern/stroke/swing can be seen on my YouTube channel posted below. I will try to upload additional videos with various angles (including down-the-line) in the near future.
My misses are primarily pulls with the divots pointing left (i.e. out-to-in path) and I appear to have an over-the-top move at the start of the downswing. I make an effort to exaggerate the in-to-out path on the downswing, but the results can be inconsistent and it feels more like a compensation than a solution. I have a feeling that my pivot may be the root cause, but I'm sure you TGM gurus will know better than me.
Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!
Very nice motion.
It's hard to judge from the video, because you are on a downhill lie, but your ball position may need some adjustment, looks a bit back.
I agree that your hip turn is a place to look. Feel like that right hip moves straight back.
right hip back, right forearm up
I assume from the notes on your clip that you mostly play a fade, and if you are working on the turn/roll of a swinger's move, you may want to weaken the grip a bit, and then release it more fully.
As long as the pivot keeps moving, you can release it as hard as you want with a Hogan style grip, and still hit a nice fade.
With the grip position you have now, if you really focus on the finish swivel, you'll hook it. You're playing more of a block fade now than a released fade if you get my drift. Either can work, but if you are using a swinger's startup swivel, you need a swinger's full roll.
Turn feel determines roll feel, so when you open the door going back, you need to close it on the way through!
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His downswing is slightly over his backswing handpath . . . no biggie . . . he may be over just a lil' bit . . . but to me the fix is . . .
MORE HIP TURN . . . HAND PATH NEEDS TO BE DEEPER . . . THEN HE CAN SWING HIS HANDS OVER THE BACKSTROKE HANDPATH BUT NOT BE "OVER THE TOP". LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE SWING. ALIGNMENTS ARE NICE IN THE POWER PACKAGE AND THE CLUBFACE LINES UP NICE WITH THE LEFT ARM. Turn the hips more feel like the hands never come up because you already know how to swing them up. If you fix the backstroke the down stroke will fix itself. Where your hands are at the top if you turn at all they are going to get pulled out and over. But you only get them over the backstroke handpath slightly which is really good. So if you get them deeper you can make the same move and still stay on the original planeline/angle. You ain't no over the top wiper . . . you just need to fix your backstroke and you're GOLDEN.
Here are two "extreme" examples . . . you're obviously not as "up" as Furyk . . . but this will give you an illustration. Note from where Furyk is at the top if he "spins" or turns and drags his hands out . . . you'd have never heard of him. He has to swing his arms down SUPER FAST (release #4 the fastest) so he doesn't come over.
On the other hand Mr. Hogan is much more "deep" . . he does swing his hands over his backstroke handpath but he is so deep that he doesn't end up "over" he ends up right on plane.
A couple of other things to notice are the differences in the knee bend (allowing the hips to turn). Hogan has MUCH MORE hip turn and the right knee has straightened where Furyk hasn't straightened much at all.
As far as your "startdown" . . . looked pretty nice to me . . . you just need a different place to "startdown" from . . . turn your hips on the b.s. and feel like your arms never get above your belt . . . film it and see what it looks like.
Currently this is what I am working on. Hands deeper so the swing can get on a flatter plane and the work over back on plane. I go up and then under the plane before rotating, though I have plenty of rotation in my swing. Its not an easy thing to do, come over the top consciously but I got get back to the plane and not under it.
There's more to this statement than meets the eye, or the ear for that matter. It comes from the heart of TGM. RFT, Divergent Vectors, Hands To PIvot etc etc etc. And of course , as Lynn has noted the Macdonald Drills from the 1920's.
The PIvot and the Hands do not travel in the same direction in Startup. Or the Backswing. In Startdown they do, in the ideal given a "ground up" sequence deal, but not the Downstroke or Release most likely .
The kid has a sweet swing - and improvement doesn't come easy- but I wish I had that movement to work on improving!
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