You are confusing the feels with the reals so to speak.
horizontal hinge action 'feels' like a full roll of the clubface, and yes, it is a 'closing only' motion - relative to the left shoulder hinge, just like a door
angled hinge action 'feels' like a no roll, or as you put it 'square', but the clubface is actually closing AND laying back
vertical hinge 'feels' like a reverse roll, or as you put it 'opening', but the clubface is actually ONLY laying back
the important point to keep in mind - the hinge is in the left shoulder
Setting aside the "feels", I'm just trying to understand the definitions. I believe the confusion is that I'm using the terms "square" and "opening" in relation to the inclined plane. But it seems that the alignment of the clubface for angled and vertical hinging is termed relative to the target line or baseline. Yes?
So angled hinging sees the clubface close to the plane line, but stay sqaure to the inclined plane, Yes?
And shouldn't "closing only" demonstrate with no swing of the shaft? As soon as the clubhead passes low point, it IS "laying back", no?
Last edited by Max Impact : 10-17-2010 at 03:26 PM.
With fear and trepidation, I venture to ask a question about hinge action. Forgive me Daryl if this is the wrong thread to ask this question!
Can some one describe the relationship of the right and left arm flying wedges to hinging? Is hinging another way to describe the movement of the arms from impact to end point (both arms straight)?
I ask this question because, given the discussion in this thread, it seems to me that hinging is much complicated than simply the closing or the laying off of the clubhead through impact. I have heard many people talk about closing the club face, e.g., by rolling the forearms or rolling the wrists, but those "methods" don't seem to be getting at hinging, or at least, not at a full description of what is going on with hinging mechanically.
Daryl's at a wedding in Seattle so you can relax till monday.......
Wiki answer follows:
The Flying Wedges are at Right Angles to each other. The LAFW aligned to plane of the left wrist cock , a purely perpendicular or vertical to the ground plane of left hand motion. The RFFW to the plane of the right hand bend a pure horizontal plane of right hand motion. (Gotta read 6-B-3-0-1 and 4-B-0 Perpendicular vs 4-A-0 Bent). Another way of thinking about this ......somewhat simplified ......imagine a thin line of tape running up the top of the shaft and another running up the aft of the shaft. These strips of tape representing the two planes of the Flying Wedges and where they intersect with the shaft. They are 90 degrees to each other when viewing the butt end of the shaft in section. K?
So lets say we're a Horizontal Hinger and we're in our downswing, we've slid the left hand, palm down to the inclined plane to our Release Point. The left hand starts to come off the inclined plane (release swivel) it swivels over to an aligned to the Horizontal Basic Plane position. All the while as goes the left hand so goes the LAFW and also the RFFW. So the wedges are rotating too , all the while maintaining their at right angles to each other relationship. Then we Hinge Through impact, the left hand remaining perpendicular to the Horizontal Basic Plane (the ground) Then after Both Arms straight we swivel the left hand back onto the Inclined Plane. The wedges rolling along with it and all the while maintaining their own separate alignments and relationship to each other.
Thats my take on things, Id welcome any corrections to this, treat it as a Wiki answer.....whoever feels so inclined please fix it.
With fear and trepidation, I venture to ask a question about hinge action. Forgive me Daryl if this is the wrong thread to ask this question!
Can some one describe the relationship of the right and left arm flying wedges to hinging? Is hinging another way to describe the movement of the arms from impact to end point (both arms straight)?
I think that it's an excellent question.
The Left Arm Wedge is going to be Hinged through the Impact Interval.
The Hinge will be located at the Left Shoulder.
The Alignment of the Paddlewheel Motion of the Right Forearm Wedge will determine the Alignment of the Hinge (i.e. Angled, Horizontal).
If the Right Forearm/Hand Paddlewheels about an axis that's perpendicular to the Horizontal Plane, then the Hinge Pin will be Perpendicular to the Horizontal Plane. Horizontal Hinging.
If the Right Forearm/Hand Paddlewheels about an axis that's perpendicular to the Angled Plane, then the Hinge Pin will be Perpendicular to the Angled Plane. Angled Hinging.
You have TWO CHOICES: Hinge Through Impact or Swivel Through Impact.
If you Force the Left Wrist to Roll Through the Impact Interval, by Rolling it with the Left Arm or Wrist or Forearm Muscles, then the Right Hand will also Roll. That is Swiveling. Both Hands are rotating Counterclockwise. You are Rolling the Center of Gravity of the Clubhead and Clubface Alignment will be erratic. The Clubface will Close and Hood.
When you use the Paddlewheel Action of the Right Forearm and Hand to Roll the Left Wrist Through the Impact Interval, you are Hinging. The Left Hand Rotates Counterclockwise but the Right Hand does not. You are Rotating the Clubface in Alignment of the Hinge. The Clubface will Close Only.
One last point if I may:
When Pressure is applied to the #3 Pressure Point, then the Right Forearm will perform the Rotational Requirements of the pre-selected Hinge Action. Without #3 Pressure Point Pressure, the Right Forearm Flying Wedge cannot exert its influence on the Left Arm Wedge. But, although the Rotational Motion may exist and the Left Arm will be influenced by that motion, it won't have the "Hard Snap Roll" of Horizontal Hinging through and after impact. Its a softer sort of Roll and it will be influenced by Impact Deceleration.
I don't understand why it can not be the clubface as well, since the sweetspot always is in the middle of the clubface. What am I missing?
Hmmmm .........yes the sweetspot (the opposite end of the sweetspot plane from the #3pp) travels the inclined plane but the face angle's relationship to the Inclined Plane varies for all but the impact interval of Angled Hinging. For instance, the properly aligned clubface is not necessarily on or parallel to the inclined plane at top (or parallel to the left arm for that matter). The left hand lays on the plane at top but not the face, necessarily.
Setting aside the "feels", I'm just trying to understand the definitions. I believe the confusion is that I'm using the terms "square" and "opening" in relation to the inclined plane. But it seems that the alignment of the clubface for angled and vertical hinging is termed relative to the target line or baseline. Yes?
So angled hinging sees the clubface close to the plane line, but stay sqaure to the inclined plane, Yes?
And shouldn't "closing only" demonstrate with no swing of the shaft? As soon as the clubhead passes low point, it IS "laying back", no?
Part of the reason you are confused is that you are focused on hinge being on the plane, and not the left shoulder.
This is a central point of confusion for many when learning about hinge motion.
the hinge is in the left shoulder
If you have the book, look at 1-L
Now picture that as your left shoulder and arm
so while you are correct that with an angled hinge, the clubface does stay perpendicular, or vertical, to the angled plane, or in your words 'square', that isn't the whole picture and is why you are confused about the horizontal example
forget plane/target lines for a moment, and just imagine the 3 basic planes - horizontal (a door), angled (a roof) and vertical (a dog door)
imagine there is a door with the hinge at your left shoulder
the clubface stays 'in' the door - which is easy to see if you lift the club up to shoulder high, but as soon as you lower it down, the confusion sets it
you are still keeping the clubface 'in' the door, but on the tilted plane, and to do that, you have to let the left wrist turn going back, and roll going through
by staying 'in' the door, the clubface is appearing to open and close to the target, but it is staying 'square' - 'in' the door that is mounted at the left shoulder
next, you'll see how the right arm is what 'slams' the door, by straightening - and that motion is either an active straight line push (hitter), or the throw out (swinger) of the club caused by the pivot
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From impact, does the body(center of the chest) pivot with the left arm to follow through?
Follow-through is "Both Arms Straight". If Impact occurs while the Right Arm is Bent but straightening, then how could the Left Arm move precisely with the Chest?
Remember that at Follow-through, both Arms are straight, which locates the Hands in the center of the chest. The Left Arm won't become 90 degrees to the Chest until about the Finish Swivel. The Left Elbow needs to bend to allow the Hands to pass "Center of the Chest" Both Arms Straight.
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