Zero Pivot, Zero Hip Turn, Zero Shoulder Turn - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

Zero Pivot, Zero Hip Turn, Zero Shoulder Turn

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Old 12-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Par71 Par71 is offline
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Zero Pivot, Zero Hip Turn, Zero Shoulder Turn
What is the relationship between those Zeroes?

12-5-1 calls for Zero Pivot and Zero Shoulder Turn in Basic Motion. Is Zero Hip Turn not mentioned because Hip Turn should not be (or does not have to be) zero in Basic Motion - or is there no need to mention Zero Hip Turn because it comes with Zero Pivot and Zero Shoulder Turn anyway?
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:11 PM
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Shoulder Motion and Zero Pivot
Originally Posted by Par71 View Post

What is the relationship between those Zeroes?

12-5-1 calls for Zero Pivot and Zero Shoulder Turn in Basic Motion. Is Zero Hip Turn not mentioned because Hip Turn should not be (or does not have to be) zero in Basic Motion - or is there no need to mention Zero Hip Turn because it comes with Zero Pivot and Zero Shoulder Turn anyway?
The Shoulder and Hip Turns are both Pivot Components. However, the Shoulder Turn is also a Power Package Component (the Triangle Assembly / 6-A-1). Every Stroke includes a Power Package Assembly, but not all Strokes include a Pivot. Therefore, being part of both the Power Package and the Pivot, it is possible to have Shoulder Motion without violating the conditions of Zero Pivot.

When the Shoulder Turn is also zeroed in the Basic Motion -- a very small motion! -- then only the Arms are available to Power the Stroke (assuming, of course, no independent Wrist Motion). Swinging, this means the Pull Minor Basic Stroke (10-3-D). Hitting, it means the Punch (10-3-A) or Push (10-3-C) Major Basic Strokes, perhaps in conjunction with the Bat Minor Basic Stroke (10-3-K).

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Old 12-23-2010, 05:37 AM
Par71 Par71 is offline
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The reason behind my question is this:

In all videos of players performing Basic Motion with a Swinging procedure I notice the players "turn their hips to the target" to some extent post impact (or even before). I am not sure if the motion I see is actually a Hip Turn as defined by TGM. So maybe I should say the players turn their belt buckle somewhat to the target. Is there a (slight) Hip Turn in Basic Motion for Swingers (maybe a Shiftless Hip Turn)? If so, does that comply with the Zero Pivot requirement?

Also, their seems to be some "turning of the shoulders" towards the target post impact (in Basic Motion with a Swinging procedure). Does this still comply with the Zero Shoulder Turn requirement - because it occurs after impact?
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:19 AM
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The Basic Motion
Originally Posted by Par71 View Post
The reason behind my question is this:

In all videos of players performing Basic Motion with a Swinging procedure I notice the players "turn their hips to the target" to some extent post impact (or even before). I am not sure if the motion I see is actually a Hip Turn as defined by TGM.

Also, their seems to be some "turning of the shoulders" towards the target post impact (in Basic Motion with a Swinging procedure). Does this still comply with the Zero Shoulder Turn requirement - because it occurs after impact?
The Basic Motion as strictly defined in 12-5-1 is a very small Stroke involving zero body action (including Shoulder Turn). Here I am using a Hitting procedure to demonstrate such a Stroke. http://lynnblakegolf.com/index.php/G...24864054983329 Even so, there is a minimal Shoulder movement, even though the driving Right Arm is the sole source of Power.

The Basic Motion I demonstrated to Collin Neeman (see the first video in that Series) is a larger Motion than this. As is the Basic Motion I demonstrate on my Golf Channel Instructor Search Video. These Motions involve all Three Zones (Body, Arms and Hands). In essence they are the Short Strokes of 12-0 wherein the essential Geometry and Total Motion of the Full Strokes is not changed, but is only "miniaturized".

The essence of the 'basic golf motion' I teach may be found in the MacDonald Exercises (#5 and #6) with a coordinated motion of the Pivot, reduced Arm Swing and zero Wristcock. http://lynnblakegolf.com/index.php/G...20861548192705

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Old 12-28-2010, 01:59 AM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Yoda would it be correct to say Basic motion could also include the Paw
Zone 1 only , or Pick, Zone 3 only, in addition to the Zone 2 only ( Push, Pull and Bat of Zone 2)..... which I think is the Basic motion of 12-5? They are all one accumulator, but Homer seemed to have a preference for Zone 2 only ....the arm strokes. Why? Shoulder strokes are so common when putting! Is it a sameness thing?
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:50 AM
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Building Blocks
Originally Posted by O.B.Left View Post
Yoda would it be correct to say Basic motion could also include the Paw
Zone 1 only , or Pick, Zone 3 only, in addition to the Zone 2 only ( Push, Pull and Bat of Zone 2)..... which I think is the Basic motion of 12-5?
The answer is no.

The Basic Motion of the Golf Stroke involves Right Elbow Action. Body Only or Hands Only Strokes eliminate this fundamental requirement. Hence, while they are legitimate Variations, they are not foundational.

P.S. I think you meant "Peck", not "Pick", right?



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Old 12-28-2010, 08:28 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
The answer is no.

The Basic Motion of the Golf Stroke involves Right Elbow Action. Body Only or Hands Only Strokes eliminate this fundamental requirement. Hence, while they are legitimate Variations, they are not foundational.

P.S. I think you meant "Peck", not "Pick", right?



Keerect Peck it was. Arnie style. Pick is not Zone 3 only.

Maybe I didnt choose my words carefully. I apologize if Im covering old ground.
This is what I'm trying to confirm:

Namely that 12-5 being a curriculum for graduating relatively seamlessly (Homers "sameness" ) from Basic to Acquired to Total Motion, Homer reco'd the Right Elbow (Active or Passive) Zone 2 only in Stage One. It being, as you mention foundational, found throughout the Three Stages. Whereas the equally useful but "specialized" or "unique" to the short shot methods like Peck, Paw etc. are not foundational. Great, sometimes common methods for chipping or putting , but ones that dont graduate or transfer to Acquired or Total Motion. You can not strike a driver with a handsy Pecking motion for instance.

Would this be correct?

I guess Im trying to figure out if Homer really preferred that we employ Zone 2 only when chipping or putting when its not so common on Tour. To freeze the Pivot when chipping say. Or freeze the Shoulders when putting.

As a means to working my way up to Total Motion I love it but in a tournament I employ a different method personally. Paw for putting for instance.

Thank you for this.

Ob

PS Ive been working on things, my Picks, Pecks, Pulls, Putts, Paws, Bats are in order and so I'd like to challenge you when next we meet. Ill give you Pause up front........no one can beat you at that one. Well outside of a few guys on TV maybe. Im done like dinner I know, but itll give me something to work towards.

Last edited by O.B.Left : 12-28-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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