Lynn's video is very good at describing the rhythm and the hinge action in chipping. I like the analogy of the merry-go-round. In the chipping the slowest RPM would be the left shoulder and fast RPM would be the clubhead.
I believe the full swing is a different animal.
The full swing requires a good pivot, the torso has the slowest RPM, slower than the left shoulder, and thus should be the regulator of the total speed(tempo) of the swing. Just like the drummer of a band dictates the speed of play the other band members.
I believe the initiation of the swing, would be better of at the core perhaps the pelvis turn, maybe the shoulder blades and rotation of shoulders , or the head turn. This would keep the swing motion in rhythm.
Don't confuse RPM with MPH. RPM (Revolutions per Minute) deals with the act of revolving (orbit) and the time it takes to complete this action. MPH (miles per hour) is pace. The Clubhead and Left Shoulder can move at the same RPM's, but the Clubhead has more MPH's. The Hips move through Impact at approximately two MPH, the Shoulders five MPH, the Hands 15 MPH and the Clubhead 100 MPH, but all can move at the same RPM's.
Although Vardon came before Mehlhorn (who I got to work with briefly) and Macdonald, both Mehlhorn and Macdonald incorporated them effectively into their teching. the origin is lost in the mist of time.
Thanks for that Drew.
Id like to hear about your experiences with Wild Bill some day.
Also don't confuse golfing machine rhythm with the conventional pop instruction definition which is how well each lagging component is synchronized with the leading component and how well coordinated the overall swing appears.
The golfing machine definition is how Yoda and Drew have described it. You'll also find that each hinge action and its associated clubhead travel has its own rhythm "around" the left shoulder hinge pin through impact. That's why Lynn focused in on hinge action in the video. He is demonstrating golfing machine rhythm from start to finish.
Granted, well synchronized lag and coordination is important, but its not how Homer defined rhythm.
Did I intentionally title this thread to highlight the differences?
Mayba Actually I just liked the happy dance. Fred Astaire was an amazing athlete. Gifted in conventional rhythm and golfing machine rhythm IMHO.
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1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
Don't confuse RPM with MPH. RPM (Revolutions per Minute) deals with the act of revolving (orbit) and the time it takes to complete this action. MPH (miles per hour) is pace. The Clubhead and Left Shoulder can move at the same RPM's, but the Clubhead has more MPH's. The Hips move through Impact at approximately two MPH, the Shoulders five MPH, the Hands 15 MPH and the Clubhead 100 MPH, but all can move at the same RPM's.
Technical reasoning: If they move at the same RPM and the clubshaft is twice as long as the left arm, the clubhead speed would be 3 times as fast as the hands speed - all due to increased swing radius. With a hand speed of 15 MPH that gives you a club head speed of 45 MPH. A shaft that is twice as long as your arm is probably an illegal driver so the 45 MPH figure can safely be regarded as a theoretical maximum.Now, if the club head speed really is 100 MPH, you have at least 55 MPH that aren't yet accounted for. You need higher RPM to explain it.
A more golf like explanation: You don't have to be a mechanical engineer to get this. Remember that between 9 and 3 (as in a 9-3 drill), the left arm goes from parallel to parallel (to the plane line) while the club shaft goes from vertical to vertical. Parallel to parallel means that the left arm rotates 180 degrees. Vertical to vertical means that the club shaft rotates 360 degrees. So in average for the 9-3 motion, the shaft has twice as high RPM as the left arm from 9-3. If you account for a late release here, we are certainly talking about a much higher RPM difference through impact.
Only if you zero accumulator #2 and #3 (or freeze them) will you get the same RPM for arm and club shaft. I guess some does that with the putter but that would be the only shot where this is possible.
Granted, well synchronized lag and coordination is important, but its not how Homer defined rhythm.
Homer defined rhythm as ...holding both lever assemblies to the same basic RPM. While he defines mechanical rhythm as holding all components ... to the same RPM
My guess is that Homer used the word basic his definition because there's a bit more to it than the mechanical definition. Perhaps in an effort to simplify the explanation. Or dumbing it down if you like. But you guys seem to have dismissed the difference Homer made here.
Technical reasoning: If they move at the same RPM and the clubshaft is twice as long as the left arm, the clubhead speed would be 3 times as fast as the hands speed - all due to increased swing radius. With a hand speed of 15 MPH that gives you a club head speed of 45 MPH. A shaft that is twice as long as your arm is probably an illegal driver so the 45 MPH figure can safely be regarded as a theoretical maximum.Now, if the club head speed really is 100 MPH, you have at least 55 MPH that aren't yet accounted for. You need higher RPM to explain it.
A more golf like explanation: You don't have to be a mechanical engineer to get this. Remember that between 9 and 3 (as in a 9-3 drill), the left arm goes from parallel to parallel (to the plane line) while the club shaft goes from vertical to vertical. Parallel to parallel means that the left arm rotates 180 degrees. Vertical to vertical means that the club shaft rotates 360 degrees. So in average for the 9-3 motion, the shaft has twice as high RPM as the left arm from 9-3. If you account for a late release here, we are certainly talking about a much higher RPM difference through impact.
Only if you zero accumulator #2 and #3 (or freeze them) will you get the same RPM for arm and club shaft. I guess some does that with the putter but that would be the only shot where this is possible.
Between 9 and 3 (as in a 9-3 drill), the Left Arm goes from parallel to parallel (to the plane line) while the Clubshaft goes from vertical to vertical. Parallel to parallel means that the Left Wrist traveled "X" distance. Vertical to vertical means that the Clubhead traveled a greater distance. So for the 9-3 interval, the Clubhead travels farther than the left wrist.
But because the Flat Left Wrist and Clubface remained aligned (Left Arm Wedge) during the 9-3 interval, they have the same Rhythm - RPM.
Don't confuse RPM with MPH. RPM (Revolutions per Minute) deals with the act of revolving (orbit) and the time it takes to complete this action. MPH (miles per hour) is pace. The Clubhead and Left Shoulder can move at the same RPM's, but the Clubhead has more MPH's. The Hips move through Impact at approximately two MPH, the Shoulders five MPH, the Hands 15 MPH and the Clubhead 100 MPH, but all can move at the same RPM's.
Thanks Drew,
Good clarification.
I also wondered what people mean when describing rhythm.
Watching a player like E. Els, everyone agrees has good rhythm, but hard to describe what that is.
Compare to player like K. Perry. Does he have good rhythm? He can play. He appears to take the club back with his hands and arms only then pauses at the top then looks like any other player in RPM in the forward swing.
While E.Els, has a smooth backswing to forward swing, his RPM appears constant throughout like a merry-go-round.
So maybe that's why is so elusive to describe "good" rhythm
There is so many ways to perform startup/takeaway
The "rhythm" of the golf swing doesn't always have to the start at address.
But because the Flat Left Wrist and Clubface remained aligned (Left Arm Wedge) during the 9-3 interval, they have the same Rhythm - RPM.
I have a too strong academic and work background in science to take what you say here seriously.
The clubhead travels at a much higher RPM through impact than the hands. I don't know any way of explaining that any further than I've already done. I am just decribing something that any one who studies film footage of golf strokes can see with their own eyes. I don't understand how anyone can dispute a fact that is so in your face.
This overtaking is the main reason that good rhythm doesn't come by itself. The Flat Left Wrist helps you to sense and control the overtaking of the club. Lag pressure - linear force - helps you to keep the left wrist flat until low point.
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Here's for those of you who sees the difference between the same RPM and the same basic RPM:
The physics of this overtaking is such that the hands will be slowed down during the overtaking and the flat left wrist will break down prior to impact - unless the golfer does something to prevent it.
I have a too strong academic and work background in science to take what you say here seriously.
Whoa. I'm not questioning your academic or work success. But try to see this from my point of view.
When the Left arm is parallel to the ground during the Downstroke, the Flat Left Wrist is laying against the Plane as does the Clubface. They are Aligned against the Plane.
After Impact, when the Left Arm is Parallel to the Ground, the Left Wrist is again, positioned against the Plane, and so is the Clubface.
The Alignment of the Clubface and Left Wrist, when the Left Wrist is Flat, creates the Left Arm Flying Wedge. If the Left Wrist Rotates, then the Clubface rotates. Simultaneously, keeping the Left Arm Wedge Intact. This is "Rhythm" (per TGM). And this can occur whether the Club is Uncocking or re-cocking. So, regardless of the very different clubhead and Hand Speed, they can rotate together, simultaneously, synchronized by the Flat Left Wrist.
Radial Alignment = Rhythm.
Quote:
RHYTHM Example – crankshaft and connecting rods. Mechanical –Holding all components of a rotating motion to the same R.P.M. Golf – Holding both Lever Assemblies to the same basic R.P.M. throughout the Stroke while overtaking all other Components at a steady, even rate.
Whoa. I'm not questioning your academic or work success. But try to see this from my point of view.
That has been my general approach towards TGM since I started reading the book. I try to understand the book on it's own premises first. Most of the time it makes sense. I removed a part below that is hard to disagree with
Quote:
The Alignment of the Clubface and Left Wrist, when the Left Wrist is Flat, creates the Left Arm Flying Wedge. If the Left Wrist Rotates, then the Clubface rotates. Simultaneously, keeping the Left Arm Wedge Intact. This is "Rhythm" (per TGM). And this can occur whether the Club is Uncocking or re-cocking. So, regardless of the very different clubhead and Hand Speed, they can rotate together, simultaneously, synchronized by the Flat Left Wrist.
Radial Alignment = Rhythm.
I just resized part of your response. The part that states that the Left Wrist and the Clubface rotates together is a given. It can't be otherwise unless you regrip the club during the downs stroke. The other part that you bring up is the Flat Left Wrist. The implications of what you're saying here is that that rhythm and Flat Left Wrist are the same. The Left Wrist condition is a good monitor and indicator of the state of the rhythm. And it is also an important alignment for maintaining rhythm. But it is not the same as rhythm.
The golf club is subject to two types of rotation in the stroke. Rotation around the lontitudinal sweet spot axis and (forearm rotation) and the rotary motion of the whole club on the inclined plane. THe rotary motion of the whole club have two components; The right arm swing and the club swing around the right hand.
When you've got good rhythm, there aren't any conflicts between the two (three) types of rotation. The finish swivel is prepared so that the Left Wrist doesn't bend until low point. And the application of lag pressure is high enough to resist the left wrist from breaking down during the release. There is a lot more than a flat left wrist that goes into this. And RPM difference between clubhead and hands is what creates the CF throwout, stalls the hands and makes it a true challenge to have good rhythm.
Actually I just liked the happy dance. Fred Astaire was an amazing athlete. Gifted in conventional rhythm and golfing machine rhythm IMHO.
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