According to Tom Tomasello Standard Hip Action was suppose to be the 10-15 Hip Action for both the swinging and hitting patterns for the 7th edition. Tom assembled a complete 7th edition with Homer's notes. It appears Joe Daniels did the same thing. Tom had that revision completed by the late 80's. Tom instructed his students to change 10-15-B to 10-15-A in the book. When I studied with Tommy, I came to the lessons with delayed hip action, by the time I left (I have it on audio tape)I was learning standard hip action. Trust me, I'm definitely clearing my right hip, combined with the magic of the right forearm action, I have a very stable and reliable backswing.
I use Standard Hip Action for both swinging and hitting with equally good results. I have no desire to go back to delayed hip action. You have to go with what works, I believe Homer would be in agreement.
Great exchange going on in this thread.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 12-02-2011 at 10:13 PM.
According to Tom Tomasello Standard Hip Action was suppose to be the 10-15 Hip Action for both the swinging and hitting patterns for the 7th edition. Tom assembled a complete 7th edition with Homer's notes. It appears Joe Daniels did the same thing. Tom had that revision completed by the late 80's. Tom instructed his students to change 10-15-B to 10-15-A in the book. When I studied with Tommy, I came to the lessons with delayed hip action, by the time I left (I have it on audio tape)I was learning standard hip action. Trust me, I'm definitely clearing my right hip, combined with the magic of the right forearm action, I have a very stable and reliable backswing.
I use Standard Hip Action for both swinging and hitting with equally good results. I have no desire to go back to delayed hip action. You have to go with what works, I believe Homer would be in agreement.
Great exchange going on in this thread.
DG
great practical insight here...
As a swinger who tends to overswing, i prefer delayed hip action. It helps me set up the lag and drag in the backstroke for all components in the downstroke. I prefer the sequence to be arms, shoulders, hips, knees then feet in the backstroke. By reversing that sequence in the downstroke, this extends the swing radius to the feet, which resists impact deceleration (think of pivot lag in both directions as a kind of extensor action for the pivot).
Options of course...but more of an adjusted address look...if you keep your arms soft and move your body around you'll note the change in the handle location....I'd say preturn the right hip and actually pre-straighten the right knee some too...should pull the handle to the point where your hands look more address attitude than fix.
I think I understand you now, 12pb:
You do not try to fix in your mind the (original) Right Forearm Angle of Approach at Impact Fix (or at Address before preturning the Hips) and then preturn the Hips until the line between your Left Knee and your Right Hip becomes parallel to that (remembered) angle.
Instead, you pre-turn the Hips at Adjusted Address (and also pre-straighten the Right Knee) until the line from the Left Knee to the Right Hip is parallel to the Right Forearm Angle of Approach that results from that preturn. So you can simply check these alignments by looking down after the preturn.
According to Tom Tomasello Standard Hip Action was suppose to be the 10-15 Hip Action for both the swinging and hitting patterns for the 7th edition. Tom assembled a complete 7th edition with Homer's notes.
DG, I was about to ask you this before:
I seem to remember that you wrote in other threads that in the 7th edition Hip Action for the Basic Stroke Patterns had been changed from Delayed to Standard. Were you referring to that draft 7th edition that Tom Tomasello assembled, or is this really somewhere in the final 7th edition?
I seem to remember that you wrote in other threads that in the 7th edition Hip Action for the Basic Stroke Patterns had been changed from Delayed to Standard. Were you referring to that draft 7th edition that Tom Tomasello assembled, or is this really somewhere in the final 7th edition?
refer to ch. 12 of your own 7th edition IT IS NOT STANDARD
You do not try to fix in your mind the (original) Right Forearm Angle of Approach at Impact Fix (or at Address before preturning the Hips) and then preturn the Hips until the line between your Left Knee and your Right Hip becomes parallel to that (remembered) angle.
Instead, you pre-turn the Hips at Adjusted Address (and also pre-straighten the Right Knee) until the line from the Left Knee to the Right Hip is parallel to the Right Forearm Angle of Approach that results from that preturn. So you can simply check these alignments by looking down after the preturn.
YES SIR....
Pre-turn and pre-straighten to allow the abruptly inward hand path as dictated by the AOA...
AOA...10-5-E....inward.....people have made a point that your hands can go too low and underplane...so how do you "adjust" to this inward direction? You are seeing the model...in my mind...
AP's hands are IN but his clubhead is in and UP...how is this accomplished? Sweetspot up and deep hands below shoulder line and deep?
1. Palmer had a MASSIVE amount of hip turn (facilitated by an almost hyper extended right knee and bent left knee) allowing his right shoulder and right hip to reach deeeeep. BUT...why not underplane?
2. The inward component is from the TURNING PIVOT
3. The upward component is from the loading of the right elbow...Palmer elevated the club by bending his right elbow (as well as fanning and retracting it...more inward componet)
4. More upward from the LENGTHENING of his entire right side...right shoulder deep and high ...right hip deep and high...right leg long.....left side compressed....also allowing a centered motion with the AOA geometry...his right shoulder is not really "flat to the plane"...it is more UP AND DEEP to the plane...adjusted 10-5-E AOA plane...more in and steeper
He IS NOT getting up by LIFTING...he is not raising his right humerus bone off his body....this allows his hands and the primary lever assembly to stay BELOW his right shoulder...he can immediately LAUNCH the lever assemblies and wedge structure down AND OUT on plane....his right shoulder is ON TOP of the left arm being the upper leg of the primary lever...providing the initial acceleration and then the LAUNCHING PAD
You'll note if you put yourself in a top position (minus the archy left wrist) like Palmer with one of them ninja sticks or a dowel on the ground aproximating the AOA...your LEFT ARM will also be approximately parallel to the AOA at top...right shoulder and hip joints deep and high...no elevating the club by lifting the arms off the rib cage...upward from the loading of the right elbow..no right wrist cock disrupting the wedges...upward from a long and deep right side..reaching BACK AND STRIVING FOR HEIGHT....
Note the height of the right shoulders and shoulder slant difference....this is basically the difference between pitch and punch elbow and what it does to the rate that you achieve your axis tilt...
Have a look at the swing at the 1:30 mark...BEAUTIFUL...
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 12-03-2011 at 08:47 AM.
Great analysis Bucket, difficult to do with Arnie because he never seemed to swing it the same way twice in a row! Mr. Palmer never tried to be pretty, it was all about playing the game and posting up a number...
Palmer always looked like he was "holding off" that driver, afraid of the hook. Possibly because he was a little under plane? A little under like Stricker, but he just plays for the draw and let's her buck!
I haven't studied much footage of Mr. Player, but his swing sure looked sweet in that video. Very under rated...
Really enjoying this thread!
Kevin
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