Interesting Drew, I don't want to start another war but Lag Erickson has George as one of his illustrations of being a hitter.
Knudson played and taught Balance, Centrifugal Force, Inertia, connecting a Starting position to a Finish Position as well as "giving up control, to get control". I don't ever recall Knudson ever saying that other than the Hands, Arms and Club are moved by the Body (weight transfer and rotation). While we are all entitled to our opinions, that is not Hitting.
Real name is John Erickson, played a lot of Canadian and Australian golf tours before giving up a lot of years ago.
Played at the same time as Todd Hamilton. He recalls when Todd came back from Japan with a huge metal driver and had gained 40 yards. As far as he was concerned it was the beginning of the end for golf.
I consider him a friend. He is a hugely interesting guy.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
It's like comparing apples and oranges if comparing John Erickson's version of hitting to the TGM hitting described here. John teaches a pivot driven swing with active firing hands and an inactive right arm through impact - for John, hitting means the firing of the hands, not the forced straightening of the right elbow. He maintains that Knudson and Hogan swung/hit with active hands to release #2 and #3. From my own tinkering with this type of swing, I agree with him.
Jack Nicklaus, "Golf My Way". Fireside Books, 1974.
Quote:
"But his theory seems to explain a shot I hit at the par-3 fifteenth in the second round at Firestone. The choice of club lay between a two-iron and a three-iron, and I decided to go with an easy two-iron. Coming into the ball I was deliberately 'soft' with my hands. I've never hit a better two-iron in my life! The ball finished over the green.
"Maybe this explains what happens on those good drives where I have a 'soft' feeling in my hands through the ball... My hands merely went along for the ride."
I think that Jack is saying that he didn't use the muscles in his hands, wrists and forearms to actively "Fire" the Club at the bottom of his swing.
It's like comparing apples and oranges if comparing John Erickson's version of hitting to the TGM hitting described here. John teaches a pivot driven swing with active firing hands and an inactive right arm through impact - for John, hitting means the firing of the hands, not the forced straightening of the right elbow. He maintains that Knudson and Hogan swung/hit with active hands to release #2 and #3. From my own tinkering with this type of swing, I agree with him.
Thats different for sure. An "active hand release" of number 2, is in the book by the way, see the Left Wrist Throw. Although perhaps this isnt what you are referring to.
Didnt Knudson coin the expression "passive hands"? Drewit would know for sure. He certainly used the expression. In my lessons years ago with his George's assistant instructor, Norm Moot, it was all about moving the core which was around the chest area, the inside moving the outside, the pivot controlling the hands, balance, the finish position was key, dragging the right foot, shortish backswing.
I have messed with trying to understand Lag Erickson's point of view. I may be way off but any time there is a firing of the hands is that not the pressure felt by the pressure points in the hands that the pivot is creating? His concept of hitting (I think) is the idea of resisting CF well past impact (the mysterious 5th accumulator...which does NOT meet Homer's qualification of an accumulator) I think you do this by preserving the bend in your right elbow. Straightening the right arm too early causes the clubface to flash closed etc. Perhaps it is the season but I am weary of TGM Wars. Those that take the book literally maintain Homer's ideas as ideal as it relates to the mechanical advantage. It is a pity Lag never came to LBG to spar.
Last edited by okie : 12-16-2009 at 10:15 AM.
Reason: GOOFED UP
Thats different for sure. An "active hand release" of number 2 anyways, is in the book by the way, see the Left Wrist Throw. Although perhaps this isnt what you are referring to.
Didnt Knudson coin the expression "passive hands"? He certainly used the expression. In my lessons years ago with his George's assistant instructor, Norm Moot, it was all about moving the core which was around the chest area, the inside moving the outside, the pivot controlling the hands, balance, the finish position was key, dragging the right foot, shortish backswing.
I've read this too about Knudson's passive hands. I've read Lag Erickson's point of view on this which is that firing the hands requires special training for most golfers. Passive hands is easier to master for the average golfer who does not have time to train for this, and perhaps this is who Knudson was targetting in his book. Knudson based a lot of his swing on Hogan who clearly stated that he wished he had 3 right hands - certainly sounds like a non-passive action there. If you fire your hands then you need a very strong pivot post-impact to prevent a hook. Hudson clearly swings hard left and not out to right field, which is the tendancy with the right arm hitting action.
Originally Posted by okie
I have messed with trying to understand Lag Erickson's point of view. I may be way off but any time there is a firing of the hands is that not the pressure felt by the pressure points in the hands that the pivot is creating? His concept of hitting (I think) is the idea of resisting CF well past impact (the mysterious 5th accumulator...which does meet Homer's qualification of an accumulator) I think you do this by preserving the bend in your right elbow. Straightening the right arm too early causes the clubface to flash closed etc. Perhaps it is the season but I am weary of TGM Wars. Those that take the book literally maintain Homer's ideas as ideal as it relates to the mechanical advantage. It is a pity Lag never came to LBG to spar.
I think the hands can be passive or they can be trained to fire. I don't wish to try to interpret another golfer's training or intentions, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. I think, however, that when you swing on a tighter circle and you fire the hands from the last parallel position before impact, you are ensuring that you have acceleration into impact, and hence lag pressure.
Lag explains this much better than I of course and his posts on the matter can be found on other forums.
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