With 10-5-E and the steeper Plane causing the Clubshaft to be almost vertical at the Top do you find the loading of #3 PP feels different than when using 10-5-A?
Also, I just wanted to say that your posts here in the Hitters forum are a great help. They really help to give me an understanding of the mechanics and feels of the Hitting Stroke.
- Setup with 10-5-A Plane Line.
- Ball Position set with Clubface aligned for Angled Hinging.
- Visualize straight line Angle of Approach through Impact and Low Points.
and extended in both directions.
- Grip taken in Impact fix with, per 7-2-3, back of Flat Left Wrist and #3
PP facing down the Angle of Approach.
- Right Forearm "On Plane", Turned Shoulder, and facing down the Angle
of Approach, showing precise Cross-Line direction of Thrust through
Impact.
- Machine setup adjusted per 7-2-4. Flat, Level, and Vertical Left Wrist
with Club soled and aligned for Impact.
- 10-5-A Plane Line evaporates leaving 10-5-E, ONLY, to cover with the
Clubhead
- Make Total Motion with Clubhead covering the Angle of Approach. The
covering creates the steepness of the new Plane. The Delivery, is
then the Wheel Track Motion, with the Right Forearm and #3 PP tracing
the Delivery Line.
I believe this is accurate. This should have alginments set, and verified, per 3-F-5, Forward Press. Grip per 7-2 and Right Forearm alignment per 7-3. And the Delivery per 7-23 Wheel Track Motion.
Please let me know if I'm missing anything.
Add a little Lag Pressure and a Top Top (10-21-A) -- Hands Right Shoulder high per 10-21-0-1 with a 'high' Clubshaft (pointing toward the sky and nowhere near horizontal). Then, with all due respect to my British friends:
With 10-5-E and the steeper Plane causing the Clubshaft to be almost vertical at the Top do you find the loading of #3 PP feels different than when using 10-5-A?
Also, I just wanted to say that your posts here in the Hitters forum are a great help. They really help to give me an understanding of the mechanics and feels of the Hitting Stroke.
Thanks again.
Greg
I'm happy that I could help in any way. I just want to be a conduit for the information. Lynn helped me beyond measure. And, I'm sure that he would agree that Homer helped him beyond measure.
The feel of the #3 is different for each. When the club is on a steeper Plane, it feels lighter.
I'm happy that I could help in any way. I just want to be a conduit for the information. Lynn helped me beyond measure. And, I'm sure that he would agree that Homer helped him beyond measure.
Absolutely, Ted. We stand on the shoulders of a giant.
Homer Kelley left The Golfing Machine to us in his written and recorded words.
Been listening to the recordings, reading the book and the posts here. Still some confusion.
Let me start with that I do understand ( I think) the different procedures - Feelwise.
But the geometrical/mechanical aspects are disturbing me. And I wonder if Homer, unintentionally, mixed mechanics and feelings in chapter 2.
So please comment my thinking.
Originally Posted by Yoda
The Right Forearm always Traces -- points at -- one of the three selected Delivery Lines (2-J-3):
1. The True Geometric Plane Line (usually the Target Line);
2. The Arc of Approach;
3. The Angle of Approach.
The Clubhead may Trace -- point at -- the True Geometric Plane Line and simultaneously cover the Arc of Approach. Alternatively, the Clubhead may simply cover -- not Trace -- the Angle of Approach.
So here we go;
It took some re-readings to see that Yoda higtlighted clubhead and not clubshaft.
If I trace with my right forearm the Geometric Plane line ( A straight Line ) - The clubhead will cover the Arc of Approach, so the blur makes an arc
also,
With my right forearm tracing the Angle of Approach ( which also is a straight line) - the clubhead will cover the Angle of Approach.
And here comes my thoughts of Mr. K´s mixing.
The feel should be that the clubhead blurs in a straight line, but the blur is in fact making an arc since we have an inclined plane.
The only time the blur does not make an arc and moves in a straight line is if the plane is striktly vertical.
or am I totally wrong here?
__________________
Golf is an impossible game with impossible tools - Winston Churchill
Been listening to the recordings, reading the book and the posts here. Still some confusion.
Let me start with that I do understand ( I think) the different procedures - Feelwise.
But the geometrical/mechanical aspects are disturbing me. And I wonder if Homer, unintentionally, mixed mechanics and feelings in chapter 2.
So please comment my thinking.
So here we go;
It took some re-readings to see that Yoda higtlighted clubhead and not clubshaft.
If I trace with my right forearm the Geometric Plane line ( A straight Line ) - The clubhead will cover the Arc of Approach, so the blur makes an arc
also,
With my right forearm tracing the Angle of Approach ( which also is a straight line) - the clubhead will cover the Angle of Approach.
And here comes my thoughts of Mr. K´s mixing.
The feel should be that the clubhead blurs in a straight line, but the blur is in fact making an arc since we have an inclined plane.
The only time the blur does not make an arc and moves in a straight line is if the plane is striktly vertical.
or am I totally wrong here?
Meatballz . . . . You are making this WAY WAY WAY too hard brothaman. The EFFORT is to make the club move out to right field in a straight line. That's it . . . can you actually do it? Probably not because your armz is connected to your body so eventually you are going to have the club move and an arc . . . and when you move something in an ARC . . . what do you get? You by LAW get CF. But in Hitting do you want CF? No you don't. But can you eliminate it? No you can't. But can you limit it? Yes. How? By moving in as STRAIGHT of a LINE fashion as you can.
The Angle of Approach can be located . . . but Homer said it doesn't really matter HOW MUCH or HOW LITTLE you GO OUT . . . just GO OUT ON AS STRAIGHT OF A LINE AS POSSIBLE. Homer said that the Angle of Approach procedure would accomodate varying degrees of OUT just as well.
Dude you understand this . . . you gotta put it in the incubator and just let it simmer. Leave it alone and come back. You got it thought dude. You just don't think you got it.
When I play I'll take a couple of practice swings (hits) tracing the planeline (with RF and PP3). I'll watch the direction of the clubhead into impactposition.
Then when I hit the ball I'll abandon the feel of tracing the planeline. Instead I'll hit down on the ball, out in the direction of the clubhead seen in the practice swings.
That's it - is that it?
All kinds of stuff goes wrong sometimes: ie. when I want to hit it too hard and runs out of right arm, or when the feeling of wanting to hit forward gets too big, or when I take the club too far back and turns the hands and suddenly needs to swivel/roll back into impact........etc
But on most days, this is sooooo simple. Just trust it, and hit it long and straight.
The feel should be that the clubhead blurs in a straight line, but the blur is in fact making an arc since we have an inclined plane.
The only time the blur does not make an arc and moves in a straight line is if the plane is striktly vertical.
or am I totally wrong here?
Homer said the Plane was "vertical" then paused and said, "slightly inclined." The clubhead will always make an arc, since the club is orbiting your left shoulder as it is the top of the radius. But, you can see the second hand of a clock moving in a straight line, if your eyes are on the same plane of motion. It doesn't mean the second hand stopped moving in an arc.
He said you can't have an Angle of Approach to an Angle of Approach procedure. In Ted's words, you can't have a visual equivalent, since what you're seeing and what you're doing are one in the same.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!
For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.
Last edited by YodasLuke : 12-18-2007 at 09:20 PM.
Homer said the Plane was "vertical" then paused and said, "slightly inclined." the clubhead will always make an arc, since the club is orbiting your left shoulder as it is the top of the radius. But, you can see the second hand of a clock moving in a straight line, if your eyes are on the same plane of motion. It doesn't mean the second hand stopped moving in an arc.
He said you can't have an Angle of Approach to an Angle of Approach procedure. In Ted's words, you can't have a visual equivalent, since what you're seeing and what you're doing are one in the same.
Thank you Ted,
A follow up.
You have said that you sometimes change between 10-5-A and 10-5-E.
Do you when using 10-5-A you trace Angle of Approach and when using 10-5-E trace the Geometrical Plane Line with your right forearm?
__________________
Golf is an impossible game with impossible tools - Winston Churchill
Do you when using 10-5-A you trace Angle of Approach and when using 10-5-E trace the Geometrical Plane Line with your right forearm?
Not Ted, but this may shed a little more light on the subject. You need to reverse your above statement to read like this: "When using 10-5-A you Trace the True Geometric Plane Line and when using 10-5-E you Trace the Angle of Approach."
Here's some more info, hopefully it won't be confusing. These are, thanks to Ted, the words of Homer,
"The original plane is gone - don't even think about it. It's totally replaced."
Remember that, when using Angle of Approach. You can't trace something that's gone. The Clubhead COVERS the 10-5-E Plane Line and is also TRACED by the Right Forearm and #3 PP. Per 5-0, "... the Delivery Lines, in addition, must be 'Traced' by the Right Forearm."
Remember, when using Angle of Approach Procedure, you're NOT using 10-5-E as a new Plane, you're just using its baseline as a guideline for the Clubhead.
The visually equivalent Delivery Line, the Angle of Approach, always exists then using 10-5-A but unless you choose to, you're not necessarily covering it with the Clubhead.
Also, per 5-0, " The Plane Line - being the basic- can substitute for any of its "Visual Equivalents' at any time."
Angle of Approach and Arc of Approach are "Visual Equivalents" to the True Geometric Plane Line. Pick one of three and that's the one you Trace.
A quote from Yoda:
"Again, the Right Forearm always traces the selected Delivery Line. Then, depending on the procedure being used, the Sweetspot covers either the Arc of Approach or the Angle of Approach."
Hopefully that helps. It helps me to be sure to think about the three Delivery Lines seperately. Each one is used indepedently of the others to deliver the Clubhead.
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