For an Angle of Approach to exist, you need Two Points. First, the "Impact-Separation" Point, and second, the point at which the Club was designed to produce Straight-Away Flight without manipulation of Hook Face - LP(Low Point).
interesting. Can you support this? Its not in the book. Is it in the audio tapes? Not saying I disagree .... just wondering.
Also isn't the Angle of Approach a Visual Equivalent? Meaning its only visible from the golfers eye line?
interesting. Can you support this? Its not in the book. Is it in the audio tapes? Not saying I disagree .... just wondering.
Also isn't the Angle of Approach a Visual Equivalent? Meaning its only visible from the golfers eye line?
Do you have a copy of the 6th Edition? If so, then you're in luck, because on page 32 Homer Kelley explains that the "Arc of Approach" is the Visual Equivalent of the Geometry of the "Angle of Approach", which is a "straight line through the Impact and Low Points".
Quote:
2-J-3 VISUAL EQUIVALENTS Delivery Paths (7-23) guide the Hands but Delivery Lines are needed to guide the Clubhead and the Right Forearm (5-0). The true geometric Plane Line is the Basic Delivery Line. But it has a very useful Visual Equivalent – the curved blur of the Clubhead path during the Address Routine and again through Release and Impact, which can be executed as a Visual ARC of Approach Delivery Line per Sketch 2-C-1-#2B. Per Sketch 2-C-1-#3 the ANGLE of Approach straight line through the Impact and Low Points is its geometric equivalent. So the two procedures are always interchangeable, but the “Arc” is the most compatible with the “On Line” Swing and the “Line” with the “Cross Line Hit” (7-23) and herein they are so paired.
"Low Point" is not a Location, it's an Alignment. The Alignment uses the basic geometry that's built into all Golf Clubs by All Manufacturers; "Neutral Hookface". The Shaft (Cog) moves On-Plane. The Target Line represents the Geometry of the Clubface (which is a re-alignment of the shaft). All Clubs have a Built-in Low Point. The Location of Low-Point forward or Aft of your Hinge Pin(s) is up to you. Your choice.
Low Point is the Intersection of the Clubhead Orbit with the Geometry of the Clubface (Target Line) that produces Straight-Away Ball Flight when the Shaft at 90 degrees to the Target Line. Neutral Hookface.
Straight-Away Ball Flight can be produced if the Ball is moved back on Orbit but not Forward of Low Point. When the Ball is moved back on the Orbit of the Clubhead, it rises above the ground. Then we Tilt the Plane (from the Plane Angle reference point) until the Ball returns to the Ground. Adjust the Hookface for Squareness at separation. The Steeper Plane Angle adjusts the Closing Ratio of the Right Forearm Angle of Approach which will "Sustain the Line of Compression" on the Plane of the "Basic Plane" of the chosen Hinge Action (Horizontal, Angled, Vertical). In "Laymans" terms, as the ball is moved back in your stance, it must also be moved "IN". This is all in the "Book", Chapter Two.
One must understand the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach". My up-coming Video's, hopefully available this Spring, will make TGM very easy to understand.
Do you have a copy of the 6th Edition? If so, then you're in luck, because on page 32 Homer Kelley explains that the "Arc of Approach" is the Visual Equivalent of the Geometry of the "Angle of Approach", which is a "straight line through the Impact and Low Points".
"Low Point" is not a Location, it's an Alignment. The Alignment uses the basic geometry that's built into all Golf Clubs by All Manufacturers; "Neutral Hookface". The Shaft (Cog) moves On-Plane. The Target Line represents the Geometry of the Clubface (which is a re-alignment of the shaft). All Clubs have a Built-in Low Point. The Location of Low-Point forward or Aft of your Hinge Pin(s) is up to you. Your choice.
Low Point is the Intersection of the Clubhead Orbit with the Geometry of the Clubface (Target Line) that produces Straight-Away Ball Flight when the Shaft at 90 degrees to the Target Line. Neutral Hookface.
Straight-Away Ball Flight can be produced if the Ball is moved back on Orbit but not Forward of Low Point. When the Ball is moved back on the Orbit of the Clubhead, it rises above the ground. Then we Tilt the Plane (from the Plane Angle reference point) until the Ball returns to the Ground. Adjust the Hookface for Squareness at separation. The Steeper Plane Angle adjusts the Closing Ratio of the Right Forearm Angle of Approach which will "Sustain the Line of Compression" on the Plane of the "Basic Plane" of the chosen Hinge Action (Horizontal, Angled, Vertical). In "Laymans" terms, as the ball is moved back in your stance, it must also be moved "IN". This is all in the "Book", Chapter Two.
One must understand the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach". My up-coming Video's, hopefully available this Spring, will make TGM very easy to understand.
Daryl, I am going to try moving the ball back and in. I wonder if you remember he Nicklaus and Player comic books that taught golf instruction in the 60's and 70's. I'm sure there were others. I think you have the skills to pull another one off online with website links and videos or even something in a simple "graphic novel" format. Very enjoyable/informative stuff.
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
The straight line wheel track is made by a circular wheel
Originally Posted by Daryl
Do you have a copy of the 6th Edition? If so, then you're in luck, because on page 32 Homer Kelley explains that the "Arc of Approach" is the Visual Equivalent of the Geometry of the "Angle of Approach", which is a "straight line through the Impact and Low Points".
"Low Point" is not a Location, it's an Alignment. The Alignment uses the basic geometry that's built into all Golf Clubs by All Manufacturers; "Neutral Hookface". The Shaft (Cog) moves On-Plane. The Target Line represents the Geometry of the Clubface (which is a re-alignment of the shaft). All Clubs have a Built-in Low Point. The Location of Low-Point forward or Aft of your Hinge Pin(s) is up to you. Your choice.
Low Point is the Intersection of the Clubhead Orbit with the Geometry of the Clubface (Target Line) that produces Straight-Away Ball Flight when the Shaft at 90 degrees to the Target Line. Neutral Hookface.
Straight-Away Ball Flight can be produced if the Ball is moved back on Orbit but not Forward of Low Point. When the Ball is moved back on the Orbit of the Clubhead, it rises above the ground. Then we Tilt the Plane (from the Plane Angle reference point) until the Ball returns to the Ground. Adjust the Hookface for Squareness at separation. The Steeper Plane Angle adjusts the Closing Ratio of the Right Forearm Angle of Approach which will "Sustain the Line of Compression" on the Plane of the "Basic Plane" of the chosen Hinge Action (Horizontal, Angled, Vertical). In "Laymans" terms, as the ball is moved back in your stance, it must also be moved "IN". This is all in the "Book", Chapter Two.
One must understand the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach". My up-coming Video's, hopefully available this Spring, will make TGM very easy to understand.
Im interested in Homers "straight away ball position" thats what I was looking for info on really. You draw a parallel between it and low point , making for a low point unique to each club. I don't think thats in the book . Did Homer discuss this somewhere else or is it from your personal think tank? Nothing wrong with the latter .... I got tons of that stuff myself. Don't share it very often but there's nothing wrong with a little thinking outside the box.
In regard to the above. I don't see the "Arc of Approach as a Visual Equivalent to the geometry of the Angle of Approach" as you say.
Id say you got two visual equivalents , one for the arc one for the straight line angle of approach procedure. Two club head blurs , one curved one straight line. From the players parallax perspective only . The "look" of the on plane club head path making for a useful visual reference. Two different procedures with entirely different geometry . One straight away plane , one closed plane for the hitters cross line hit. Two vastly different plane angles even.
As such the visual equivalents can not be drawn to show their curve or straight line nature from any perspective other than from the players. See 2-C-1 #3. You titled your drawing "Looking Down" but it doesn't appear to be looking down , players view , like Homers drawing. It looks more like its caddy view . Your drawing is neither 2-C-1 #2B nor 2-C-1 #3 Linear Force. Its not from the book.
The straight line Angle of Approach is not inscribed on the face of the plane in any of Homers drawings! I know of some drawings where it is but those are not Homers!! A well intentioned GSED but not Homer. I understand why this happens, Homer did have a certain way with words. Its so easy to mix things up. The straight line Angle of Approach can't be inscribed on the face of the plane. The straight line is a visual only. An illusion. The visual equivalent to a somewhat circular club head orbit ...which can be inscribed on the face of the plane. The club head can not travel in a straight line down the plane as the orbit is always circular , there are no flat spots possible (at speed anyways). I know Homers talks about "uncentered linear momentum" etc but thats not to be confused with a straight line club head path. I mean did Arnie have a flat spot? Put another way if you were to draw the Angle of Approach on the inclined plane .......it would not be a straight line any more. The straight line itself is the illusion. I know .....Im not doing any better with these words myself. We need drawings.
Homer has a similar looking drawing in 2-C-1 #2B but you will note that the straight line there is titled Angle of Attack not Angle of Approach a totally different deal.
Other than that I got nothing. I don't know if this effects the geometry you're discussing or not.. There's maybe been three people in the history of G.O.L.F. that understood the Angle of Approach. I know Im not one of them. But I have asked a lot of stupid questions to two of those guys. I wish Homer had drawn everything out . Everything. Straight away position , hinge action and ball flight law etc etc. I applaud your efforts to do it Daryl. Looking forward to your videos.
One must understand the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach". My up-coming Video's, hopefully available this Spring, will make TGM very easy to understand.
This caught my attention!
__________________
"The only real shortcuts are more and more know how"...TGM
Do you have a copy of the 6th Edition? If so, then you're in luck, because on page 32 Homer Kelley explains that the "Arc of Approach" is the Visual Equivalent of the Geometry of the "Angle of Approach", which is a "straight line through the Impact and Low Points".
"Low Point" is not a Location, it's an Alignment. The Alignment uses the basic geometry that's built into all Golf Clubs by All Manufacturers; "Neutral Hookface". The Shaft (Cog) moves On-Plane. The Target Line represents the Geometry of the Clubface (which is a re-alignment of the shaft). All Clubs have a Built-in Low Point. The Location of Low-Point forward or Aft of your Hinge Pin(s) is up to you. Your choice.
Low Point is the Intersection of the Clubhead Orbit with the Geometry of the Clubface (Target Line) that produces Straight-Away Ball Flight when the Shaft at 90 degrees to the Target Line. Neutral Hookface.
Straight-Away Ball Flight can be produced if the Ball is moved back on Orbit but not Forward of Low Point. When the Ball is moved back on the Orbit of the Clubhead, it rises above the ground. Then we Tilt the Plane (from the Plane Angle reference point) until the Ball returns to the Ground. Adjust the Hookface for Squareness at separation. The Steeper Plane Angle adjusts the Closing Ratio of the Right Forearm Angle of Approach which will "Sustain the Line of Compression" on the Plane of the "Basic Plane" of the chosen Hinge Action (Horizontal, Angled, Vertical). In "Laymans" terms, as the ball is moved back in your stance, it must also be moved "IN". This is all in the "Book", Chapter Two.
One must understand the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach". My up-coming Video's, hopefully available this Spring, will make TGM very easy to understand.
Why not make your video with Trackman set up behind you to prove it. I interested in purchasing that.
Why not make your video with Trackman set up behind you to prove it. I interested in purchasing that.
I have a better wager. You get a player and a Trackman. Spend one day with him. I get him the next day and spend one hour with him. Let him be the judge.
I'm only trying to make a simple point. Low Point is needed to determine the Angle of Approach. Clubhead "Path" is not AOA. So, be aware that "Trackman" numbers will be very exaggerated and often beyond usefulness. Knowing the AOA will help narrow down the possible Swing Flaw(s). Using HK's geometry of the Circle, AOA rarely exceeds 1.5 degrees unless the Ball is positioned behind center of stance. Trackman correlates but I would read those numbers with a large dose of caution and "Cause-effect". This is where a little knowledge will do a lot of damage and a lot of knowledge will do less.
I would argue that until a player becomes somewhat skilful, that Trackman should stay on the shelf. Maybe much longer.
Understanding the geometry is the first step to identifying the critical alignments of the shot. Ball Location (AOA), Hookface (Face-alignment), Swing Plane (Shaft), Stance Width (Shaft Lean), Hinge Action, etc, etc.
I'm not criticizing "Trackmans" potential use as a tool, but it's no substitute for understanding the geometry and physics of Impact and it won't teach you these things.
Honestly, you can help a 15 handicap player reduce his play by 10 strokes simply by teaching him/her the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach" and "Hinge Action". About 15 minutes. I can only assume that it's not being taught because most TGM instructors aren't aware of or don't understand. How much better can you do? The teacher in the above video claims that "Drivers" and "Irons" need different swings. That is what Trackman has done. More confusion, misinformation and another decade of misguided teaching. Good luck with your purchase.
TGM is not invention. HK invented very little. It's about ten's of thousands of observations, definitions and codifications and much more. He didn't invent Hinging, nor RFAOA, or Sweep Release or even the Magic of the Right Forearm. These things were being done for hundred of years before HK wrote the book. A Golf-club and Golfer 200 years ago were subject to the same "Laws" governing the Swing today. "Law" and "Technique" are not the same.
Honestly, you can help a 15 handicap player reduce his play by 10 strokes simply by teaching him/her the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach" and "Hinge Action". About 15 minutes.
It doesn't exactly build up my confidence to hear how easy it should have been.. My ability to learn must be terrible.
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