IMO its a visual guide line with (given the degree of inclination to the plane) an associated club head blur. A guide line for the Release of Accumulated Power. You have to know where to aim all that power.
Assuming Tracing and the arc of approach procedure.
At Top you should :
See the straight line Base Line
Mentally prepare to uncock down plane towards the base line .
Mentally prepare to Roll on plane, "down the line" and see the associated club head blur. The blurred arc of the club head's on plane path.
People tend to: Not uncock down the plane but forward on plane. Steer the face towards the hole. Steer the club head overtop of the straight line plane line...."covering the plane with the club head". All bad stuff geometrically. All very common. To change that you need to change your intentions.
Thanks OB. Any advice on how to Release/Roll #3 after starting to Release #2? Or should you be only thinking #2?
How you think Hogan did it with a Bent L wrist on Top? From Top, Drag Load, then just #2 down on plane/baseline with #3 being released "Automatically"?
Thanks OB. Any advice on how to Release/Roll #3 after starting to Release #2? Or should you be only thinking #2?
How you think Hogan did it with a Bent L wrist on Top? From Top, Drag Load, then just #2 down on plane/baseline with #3 being released "Automatically"?
At home today , sick, bored . Sorry for the long response .
From Top the intention is to (later in Release) uncock #2 with the left hand turned to plane. Then Roll #3. Be this Auto or Non Auto. Start with Non Auto first then once mastered Auto will appear out of nowhere.
Re Hogan. IMO If the Left Hand lays flat to plane at Top and the left arm in not on plane (and it isn't given any #3 angle to the left hand grip) then ..... there will be some cup to the left hand at Top. More cup for flatter plane angles. The "Flat Left Wrist " is geometrically flat not literally flat to my mind. Did Hogan "double cock".. maybe a touch.
Hogan opened the face wide open , toe down at Top . He was what we used to call an "open to closed" guy.... but with an occasional Angled Hinge . Another anti hook manipulation. An Angled Hinge Swinger , with the reduced club head travel and slight power loss associated with Angled Hinging assuming the same Hand speed. For distance off the tee he could hit draws , Horizontal Hinge it . Fer sure.
Homer considered Hogans Drag Loading to be in his words "the ideal". Drag Loading is I would venture , Hogan inspired. Ground up. Swinging from the feet. So yes he Dragged it .... Dragged the Hands, the butt end down plane towards the base line with the Left and Right Hands turned Flat to Plane . I suspect his Release was full auto Snap. Some have ventured that it was non Auto ... maybe , we'll never know for sure. I know it was a Sequenced Release .. . you can see it.
How should one learn this? Homer suggested we start with a Non Auto in this instance a (Left) Wrist Throw with the Left Hand turned to Plane and then Roll it over at the bottom. Left unblocked its momentum will want to Roll . Then gradually learn to Delay it until the point that it becomes Automatic... entirely produced by CF throwout. Flip Release can get in the way of this graduated approach . For me my goat humping blocked the travel of my right elbow and induced Release ... I subconsciously released to straighten the right elbow so the hands could pass the hips. A zone 1 malady. Fix Zone 1 problems before you move onto Zone 2 problems!! Any attempt to do otherwise will be compromised .
Learning to accelerate Longitudinally really helps. Doing little Acquired Motion drills where you pull the club longitudinally. Stopping at Top also helps on full swings. Going all the way back to End requires a Top Arc before you can get to a place from which to Drag down towards the plane line. Doing some drills where you Float Load can help too. If you're in the process of cocking you can't be in the process of uncocking.
Its all about getting your fully cocked left wrist down plane a little later for most guys, guys who release from Top . The Dragging is a way of Delivering the fully loaded power package down plane to its Release Point. Also a Dragging of the club longitudinally , straight line does not induce CF Throwout theoretically (assuming a straight line) . Once the club head moves outside the orbit of the hands it will go, Throw Out . Think about the ski boat and the water skier. They travel in line at the same speed , then the boat takes a corner and the skier gets thrown out. Thats the pulley wheel he is encountering. The sharper the corner the more he gets thrown out. As a golfer we sharpen the corner , shrink the pulley wheel by delaying release to a later point along the straight line delivery path of the hands from Top. Can the hands actually travel a straight line ? Er no ... not for long , but some delivery paths of the Hands are straighter than others . Profoundly straighter and the physics above is real . Longitudinal then Radial . Stopping at Top as Hogans hands did, as Lynns do will help with the straight line path of the hands and remove all of the problems with the Top Arc.... bounce out , throw out, run off what ever you want to call it. If it goes up there, throws out , its hard to recover it ... like a runaway train.
For you , given your love for Roll the only thing Im wondering is if you are adding some Right Arm in Release. Thats OK . So do I often . If so then you will have to dial that down when learning to Drag. The Active Right Elbow extension , Right Arm Throw needs to be Delayed too. Think of the right arm release as pushing the Left Hand or Right Hand off of its turned to plane condition. It pushes the club head outside the hands immediately. Thereby inducing CF throwout too , even though you are muscling things out . You gotta sneak it down there and then let er rip. Drive loading or Drag . Talking Hitting here for a moment.
Forgive me if your not using your right arm .... just wondering given your lack of feel for the #2 and maybe the left arm. No worries though , Homers Swinging is very much a Right sided deal to my mind. The left arm is inert , string like . Left hand is club face control , only. The left arm does no pulling on full shots it is pulled by the pivot. The left hand is cocked and uncocked by the Right Side , Right Elbow given Extensor Action . So its not a necessarily a left sided swing in ones mind or intentions. It can be a right sided deal . RFT is right sided, EA is right sided , the Right Shoulder is part of the power package and can be a Release Trigger etc etc . Tons of right sided things. Homer is quoted as saying "the left arm is not so wonderful" .
uh ... I could get some heat over this post, but this is where Im at anyways. The learning curve for Drag Loading being: Drag Longitudinally then Non auto left Wrist Throw . Then Drag then Auto Wrist Throw . Then wait for it... Drag then Non Auto Right Arm throw. Non auto right arm throw Snap anyone? Then IMO you can do what Lynn and Ted can do.
PS
One word of caution . When practicing your (left) wrist throw. Actively releasing the #2 down plane towards the plane line with the left hand turned to plane. Do not hold off the Roll at the bottom ..... you can hurt your left wrist very easily! It simply can't take all that force and stop its momentum . Surprisingly low amounts of effort ruin the whole deal. Try it slowly at first uncock and then roll . Just like the swingers flail .. maybe make one out of wood to see how things should work. The roll ensures the left wrist stays flat for instance. Not rolling , Steering breaks the flat left wrist. The flat left wrist , the bent left wrist they're both indicators , products of what is going on.
Last edited by O.B.Left : 05-05-2012 at 10:54 AM.
Reason: changed flick to flip release ....my bad
Darn OB. That was great! Keep it coming. Don't get well soon...lol
I am feeling all L arm right now, from Start Up to Impact. Very L arm at Start Up, Turning my L hand, but same time making sure my R hand cooperates by turning as well, but without moving the R elbow. This makes the R palm facing the Plane early, the back of L hand facing the Plane early...staying on Hands/Shaft plane for quite a bit...then, of course, shifting to Elbow Plane, then later to Turned Shoulder Plane if I really want a very Full Swing, I consider this the Top Arc, but I think this is not Top Arc per TGM because my L hand very seldom goes higher than the Top (Turned Shoulder). All that R arm does for me is make sure the R Elbow remains Pitch and my all the way from Start Up to Start Down, and that my R palm faces the Plane with a Bent R Wrist from Backstroke to Start Down.
Then I just begin the Hip Action, Rotating it but at same time Laterally moving it. At this time I make sure my R Hand/Wrist is still Turned, the R palm still facing the plane, I focus at this time on the R because this is my monkey wrench. Once my R forearm/elbow goes "inside" with R palm still facing the Plane and R wrist Bent, at that split second the Start Down finishes, I just Pivot HARD...L arm not inert at all...it is firing hard from L shoulder to hand...all Roll...all PA3...Dual Horizontal Hinging...if I don't, I hit the ball right...feels like the ClubFACE is Angle Hinging though...if I don't Non-Auto Roll it, feels like the ClubFACE is Vertical Hinging...hope that make sense...my R arm/wrist/hand just goes along for the ride...though I always feel my PP3 pressuring the shaft Radially if I try to feel what is happening with my R hand. My R Elbow never extends, it never fires, or at least I don't encourage it...but sure it straightens, but not intended. Totally no PA1 for me. Then that high hands finish that takes longer than expected to come down...
Notice that I don't think PA2 at all..but yes, it fires/uncocks as well of course...but just very slightly before PA3 releases based on videos...So I guess my PA2 is "Auto", and Releases first, at the end of that Drag Loading...thats why I would say its 4-3-2...that is the Intent...though in reality its 4-2-3. Have lots of #3 angle...don't like tiny #3...makes my L Hand Roll very much and too soon and I hit it all over...makes sense based on TGM, I think, because I don't like PA2...yes, I release it (PA3) early, as early as the Start Down is completed..feels like as soon as I Start Down...but not at the same time it starts...its like Drag and Roll for me...I like the feeling of keeping PA2 unreleased...I know its impossible...but I like that feeling...I avoid ANY feeling of uncocking PA2...almost feels like I'm trying to avoid or prevent it from releasing, though I don't do anything to keep it unreleased...
...L arm not inert at all...it is firing hard from L shoulder to hand...all Roll...all PA3...
It should be inert! - the Left Flying Wedge rolls(Throwout) because the left shoulder is moving off plane, being driven by the right shoulder. Rolling the left wrist gives Hor. Hinging and is completely independent of Throwout. Hinge action of the left wrist doesn't mean the left arm is "active".
It should be inert! - the Left Flying Wedge rolls(Throwout) because the left shoulder is moving off plane, being driven by the right shoulder. Rolling the left wrist gives Hor. Hinging and is completely independent of Throwout. Hinge action of the left wrist doesn't mean the left arm is "active".
Maybe that is just what I feel..but yeah, it is actually, if I come to think of it, really just going along for the ride...the ride or main engine being the L shoulder/PA4/pivot...yeah, Inert...Lifeless...
But MJ, my R shoulder is never firing...if it does, I sure never felt or intended it...
Yeah, I feel my L wrist is firing, but I feel or "think" more about my L Elbow...very important to me as it helps my L arm behave "properly"... Does this L Elbow move of mine still qualifies my L arm as Inert?
Maybe that is just what I feel..but yeah, it is actually, if I come to think of it, really just going along for the ride...the ride or main engine being the L shoulder/PA4/pivot...yeah, Inert...Lifeless...
But MJ, my R shoulder is never firing...if it does, I sure never felt or intended it...
Yeah, I feel my L wrist is firing, but I feel or "think" more about my L Elbow...very important to me as it helps my L arm behave "properly"... Does this L Elbow move of mine still qualifies my L arm as Inert?
I can only conclude that you're pulling with your left shoulder, which will drag the right shoulder and RFW. This not only sacrifices power, but can mess up impact alignments. You should drive the right shoulder down plane, propelling PP#3 through impact. There's a good reason why TGM hardly makes mention of the left shoulder.
I hope by firing the left wrist, you mean rolling it, which is the only legitimate left wrist move you can make.
I'm also confused by your contradictory statements that your left arm is inert, and that you also make a "L Elbow move". If it's the move that T Bertrand claims that Hogan made, I recommend not doing it. Any left elbow move would make the left arm active, not inert.
In summary, I think, like a lot of Hogan followers, you're probably trying to execute the golf stroke like a left-handed, top-spin tennis stroke. And that's a road to somewhere you don't want to go.
I can only conclude that you're pulling with your left shoulder, which will drag the right shoulder and RFW. This not only sacrifices power, but can mess up impact alignments. You should drive the right shoulder down plane, propelling PP#3 through impact. There's a good reason why TGM hardly makes mention of the left shoulder.
I hope by firing the left wrist, you mean rolling it, which is the only legitimate left wrist move you can make.
I'm also confused by your contradictory statements that your left arm is inert, and that you also make a "L Elbow move". If it's the move that T Bertrand claims that Hogan made, I recommend not doing it. Any left elbow move would make the left arm active, not inert.
In summary, I think, like a lot of Hogan followers, you're probably trying to execute the golf stroke like a left-handed, top-spin tennis stroke. And that's a road to somewhere you don't want to go.
Even for a Swinger, the L arm is inert? Why? What is TGM's rationale for this?
Re L elbow turn, why do you not recommend that? The way I see it now, it is the same as turning the L wrist, just with more consistency. And, it is sorta like just an insurance that the L forearm will behave properly at Impact and FollowThru---L elbow bending but not retracting backwards laterally to the side and remaining in front of the torso (not chicken winging), with the L forearm/wrist still being able to turn to the fullest/efficiently and L forearm going upwards. So input power is being transferred efficiently to the L wrist and to the clubhead.
And, for a Swinger who is using #4 anyway, why would turning the L elbow make the L arm exert (not inert)? The way I see it now, the L arm being Exert (sorry, easier to type...lol) will only be unwanted IF the Swinger slows down or doesn't use #4 and then rely on Exerting his L arm to Swing the club. But this is not what I'm saying. I'm saying its #4 that is the MAIN pulling power, with #3 just being made sure to perform to transfer that power to the clubhead. The L elbow turn is just for that---Transfer of Power. That's why #3 it is called Transfer Power, correct? The L elbow turn ENSURES that...no? So why not help that Transferring of Power?
Even for a Swinger, the L arm is inert? Why? What is TGM's rationale for this?
Re L elbow turn, why do you not recommend that? The way I see it now, it is the same as turning the L wrist, just with more consistency. And, it is sorta like just an insurance that the L forearm will behave properly at Impact and FollowThru---L elbow bending but not retracting backwards laterally to the side and remaining in front of the torso (not chicken winging), with the L forearm/wrist still being able to turn to the fullest/efficiently and L forearm going upwards. So input power is being transferred efficiently to the L wrist and to the clubhead.
And, for a Swinger who is using #4 anyway, why would turning the L elbow make the L arm exert (not inert)? The way I see it now, the L arm being Exert (sorry, easier to type...lol) will only be unwanted IF the Swinger slows down or doesn't use #4 and then rely on Exerting his L arm to Swing the club. But this is not what I'm saying. I'm saying its #4 that is the MAIN pulling power, with #3 just being made sure to perform to transfer that power to the clubhead. The L elbow turn is just for that---Transfer of Power. That's why #3 it is called Transfer Power, correct? The L elbow turn ENSURES that...no? So why not help that Transferring of Power?
SWINGER OR HITTER the left arm is INERT meaning it is simply a length to be maintained, it is the same as if you replaced your left arm with a rope, IT HAS NO MUSCULAR CONTRIBUTION, it's only contribution is it's maintained natural length to provide structure and radius to the swing. the left elbow should not bend until the FINISH not the follow through, the right arm should never be straight until the end of the FOLLOW THROUGH. the arm movement you're describing sounds as if you are not clearing the left hip, THE LEFT HIP MUST CLEAR OUT to allow both arms to get to both arms straight while making room for a full roll on plane without any strange lifting or bending of the left arm as you are describing.
ALL swingers are using #4 IT IS THE MASTER ACCUMULATOR, IT must be released first it provides the main power source of the gear train. I have no idea what you mean by turning the left elbow makes it 'exert'....
Do not concern yourself with left elbow turning, focus more on the right elbow and the left hip and left wrist for proper swivel and hinge.
turning the left elbow from the top will not "help" the #3 accumulator, the only way to help or rather ensure that you get the transfer of the #3 accumulator power is to uncock the left wrist on plane and CLEAR the left hip, that is GET OUT OF THE WAY clear that left hip!
Not sure you're talking about the same move: when you say "elbow turn" I see (and it looks like MizunoJoe too) a movement of the entire arm from the shoulder. That could intefere with the pressure on #4. #3 release is pronation/supination, a movement of the forearm ("wrist movement" in TGM terms).
Not sure you're talking about the same move: when you say "elbow turn" I see (and it looks like MizunoJoe too) a movement of the entire arm from the shoulder. That could intefere with the pressure on #4. #3 release is pronation/supination, a movement of the forearm ("wrist movement" in TGM terms).
No, #3 release(Throwout) is the LFW being driven off-plane by the driving right shoulder in order to deliver the sweetspot to the ball.
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