I, too, would like clarification about the right forearm lift. By using the word "lift" or "pick up" I'm under the impression that it is a pulling action. What muscles "lift" the right forearm?
Are we leaving the right hand out of the backswing equation in these discussions on purpose? I have a hard time understanding the biomechanics of the RFT when the RH is not discussed. It seems to me that the right forearm/elbow will not bend correctly unless the right hand is bent or bending back.
Also, the picture of Tiger in the takeaway move shows his right arm higher than at address for sure, but this seems to be only an effect of his shoulders/body turning. Whether he is turning the body or moving his hands and arms back to make this happen doesn't matter. But lift or the raising of the forearm just seems to be an effect.
Sorry if I'm not understanding TGM principles correctly, I'm a simple guy with a small vocabulary. Thanks in advance for the claifications.
It is a three dimensional "Lift." back-up and in all at the same time. You can feel the pull of a REVERSE pp3 on the hands as the clubhead lifts three ways at once.
The first move is - as Yoda says- a clapping motion.
Muscle and Wrist Activity In the Right Forearm Pickup
Originally Posted by spike
I, too, would like clarification about the right forearm lift. By using the word "lift" or "pick up" I'm under the impression that it is a pulling action. What muscles "lift" the right forearm?
Are we leaving the right hand out of the backswing equation in these discussions on purpose? I have a hard time understanding the biomechanics of the RFT when the RH is not discussed. It seems to me that the right forearm/elbow will not bend correctly unless the right hand is bent or bending back.
The Left Arm (and Club) is what is being 'picked-up' by the Right Forearm. And this lift is accomplished by the bending of the Right Elbow (7-3) and the use of the Right Deltoid to raise the Right Arm. The active muscle in the Arm action is the Biceps. It is the only time during the Stroke that this muscle is actively employed. In the Downstroke, the Biceps are "completely passive" (2-M-3).
To understand this action, simply extend your Left Arm directly in front of you about chest-high. Grasp your Left Wrist with the thumb and forefinger of your Right Hand. Then, using only your Right Arm (no Left Arm activity) proceed to lift and lower the Left Arm to your heart's content. Notice that the Left Arm is completely passive and the 'work' is being done with the bending Right Elbow (via the Biceps) as the Right Deltoid (Shoulder muscle) lifts the Right Arm. The only differences between this action and your actual Backstroke are (1) you are lifting and lowering in a vertical plane in this drill versus an Inclined Plane in your Golf Stroke and (2) there is no Pivot in the drill and there is in the actual Stroke.
Regarding the Right Hand, Extensor Acton pulls the Clubshaft in-line with the Left Arm, usually during the Start Up. This Flattens the Left Wrist and Bends the Right. This action occurs in tandem with the Right Forearm Takeaway in a true, Three-Dimensional Backstroke (Up, Back and In, simultaneously and On Plane) as the Pivot performs its work (producing the circular motion of the Stroke while maintaing Balance and the stability necessary for a Centered Clubhead Arc).
Do you have a problem with NOT using extensor action, but with a backswing which is indeed a SWING of the arms caused by shoulders throwing them? Or with not using extensor action in the forward press either...? I for one find lifting the arms a very bad idea. My golf swing begins with the weight moving left to create an imbalance, and the energy and trigger that changes cognitive movements into athletic reaction occurs at that moment.
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Tommy Armour made the point: for everyone who wants to learn golf, there are six who want to be TAUGHT it.
The RFT is the clubhead being moved by the right forearm- not a pivot controlled left shoulder. The RFT is perfect to keep the club on plane without compensation on the down stroke. The right forearm lifts the club simultaneously back, up and in which is the incline plane of the swing. Perfection through geometry. You pick the physics.
A shoulder turn controlled take away can be used- used by millions- but the Hands controlling the pivot of the any golf stroke is ideal.
Originally Posted by Perfect Impact
Do you have a problem with NOT using extensor action, but with a backswing which is indeed a SWING of the arms caused by shoulders throwing them?
Extension action is merely a tug on the left arm to start the ignition of a constant left arm radius needed to delivery the clubhead to the ball. I do not feel it is anymore complicated then that. The RFT and extensor action is a match made in heaven. The result is extreme impact- the LOC. Have you heard your balls explode today?
The Left Arm (and Club) is what is being 'picked-up' by the Right Forearm. And this lift is accomplished by the bending of the Right Elbow (7-3) and the use of the Right Deltoid to raise the Right Arm. The active muscle in the Arm action is the Biceps. It is the only time during the Stroke that this muscle is actively employed. In the Downstroke, the Biceps are "completely passive" (2-M-3).
To understand this action, simply extend your Left Arm directly in front of you about chest-high. Grasp your Left Wrist with the thumb and forefinger of your Right Hand. Then, using only your Right Arm (no Left Arm activity) proceed to lift and lower the Left Arm to your heart's content. Notice that the Left Arm is completely passive and the 'work' is being done with the bending Right Elbow (via the Biceps) as the Right Deltoid (Shoulder muscle) lifts the Right Arm.
For someone trying this exercise for the first time they will find that even with extensor action applied, the 'passive left arm' tends to bend at the left elbow.
The difference in the golf swing is that there is a pulling action between extensor action and the left shoulder as the body pivot lags the hands, so the left arm is being pulled at both ends, preventing any bending of the left elbow.
The exercise could be modified to include a left elbow locked in place to prevent itself from bending but this would send the wrong message to the brain.
Originally Posted by Yoda
The only differences between this action and your actual Backstroke are (1) you are lifting and lowering in a vertical plane in this drill versus an Inclined Plane in your Golf Stroke and (2) there is no Pivot in the drill and there is in the actual Stroke.
Regarding the Right Hand, Extensor Acton pulls the Clubshaft in-line with the Left Arm, usually during the Start Up. This Flattens the Left Wrist and Bends the Right. This action occurs in tandem with the Right Forearm Takeaway in a true, Three-Dimensional Backstroke (Up, Back and In, simultaneously and On Plane) as the Pivot performs its work (producing the circular motion of the Stroke while maintaing Balance and the stability necessary for a Centered Clubhead Arc).
For someone trying this exercise for the first time they will find that even with extensor action applied, the 'passive left arm' tends to bend at the left elbow.
The difference in the golf swing is that there is a pulling action between extensor action and the left shoulder as the body pivot lags the hands, so the left arm is being pulled at both ends, preventing any bending of the left elbow.
The exercise could be modified to include a left elbow locked in place to prevent itself from bending but this would send the wrong message to the brain.
Thank you both. RFT is clear for me now, yea!!
This discription is clearly a "pulling" action.
What would happen to the left arm in the above drill (hands more belt height) if you "pushed" the left wrist away from the center of the body with the right thumb and forefinger? I find that the left arm raises and extends eliminating any left elbow bend.
For someone trying this exercise for the first time they will find that even with extensor action applied, the 'passive left arm' tends to bend at the left elbow.
The difference in the golf swing is that there is a pulling action between extensor action and the left shoulder as the body pivot lags the hands, so the left arm is being pulled at both ends, preventing any bending of the left elbow.
The exercise could be modified to include a left elbow locked in place to prevent itself from bending but this would send the wrong message to the brain.
Good point, Weightshift. I could have been a bit more precise with regards to the Left Arm, but the question I was answering with the drill focused on Right Arm and Elbow Action and the muscular activity used to motivate them. And that action will be unaffected by a Left Arm that bends a bit.
There is a misconception, however, that Right Arm Extensor Action alone is responsible for the Straight Left Arm. That is not true. There is always a Left Arm Triceps Extensor Action at work as well (12-5-1-#10 and 2-M-3).
So, let's add these two items to the drill's instruction:
1. Straighten -- but do not 'lock' -- the Left Arm with a Left Arm Triceps Extensor Action.
2. Further stretch that Left Arm with a gentle tug of the Right Arm's Triceps Extensor Action. The Right Arm will straighten somewhat, but will remain Bent due to the Checkrein Action (the "leash") of the Left Arm.
My only concern here is that by introducing this new terminology -- Left Triceps Extensor Action -- I am potentially confusing the definition of Right Triceps Extensor Action as the TGM Power Package structural process outlined in 6-B-1-D. However, in my opinion, there is a need to address the Left Triceps role in straightening the Left Elbow, and that is what this term does.
Good point, Weightshift. I could have been a bit more precise with regards to the Left Arm, but the question I was answering with the drill focused on Right Arm and Elbow Action and the muscular activity used to motivate them. And that action will be unaffected by a Left Arm that bends a bit.
There is a misconception, however, that Right Arm Extensor Action alone is responsible for the Straight Left Arm. That is not true. There is always a Left Arm Triceps Extensor Action at work as well (12-5-1-#10 and 2-M-3).
So, let's add these two items to the drill's instruction:
1. Straighten -- but do not 'lock' -- the Left Arm with a Left Arm Triceps Extensor Action.
2. Further stretch that Left Arm with a gentle tug of the Right Arm's Triceps Extensor Action. The Right Arm will straighten somewhat, but will remain Bent due to the Checkrein Action (the "leash") of the Left Arm.
My only concern here is that by introducing this new terminology -- Left Triceps Extensor Action -- I am potentially confusing the definition of Right Triceps Extensor Action as the TGM Power Package structural process outlined in 6-B-1-D. However, in my opinion, there is a need to address the Left Triceps role in straightening the Left Elbow, and that is what this term does.
Hi Lynn,
Wouldn't a pushing action of the #2PP against the club grip cause this left arm extensor condition?
Wouldn't a pushing action of the #2PP against the club grip cause this left arm extensor condition?
No, Spike, the #1 Pressure Point (the Heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb) applies the Extensor Action of the Right Triceps to stretch the Left Arm. Otherwise, the Left Triceps (no pressure point) is responsible for straightening the Left Elbow.
Other than normal Grip Pressure, the #2 Pressure Point (the last three fingers of the Left Hand) actuates the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Golf Club) only by Centrifugal Force (as passive Clubhead Lag per 10-11-0-2).
No, Spike, the #1 Pressure Point (the Heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb) applies the Extensor Action of the Right Triceps to stretch the Left Arm. Otherwise, the Left Triceps (no pressure point) is responsible for straightening the Left Elbow.
Other than normal Grip Pressure, the #2 Pressure Point (the last three fingers of the Left Hand) actuates the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Golf Club) only by Centrifugal Force (as passive Clubhead Lag per 10-11-0-2).
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