Good point, Weightshift. I could have been a bit more precise with regards to the Left Arm, but the question I was answering with the drill focused on Right Arm and Elbow Action and the muscular activity used to motivate them. And that action will be unaffected by a Left Arm that bends a bit.
It doesn't just bend a bit, it bends a lot.
You wrote..
Originally Posted by Yoda
To understand this action, simply extend your Left Arm directly in front of you about chest-high. Grasp your Left Wrist with the thumb and forefinger of your Right Hand. Then, using only your Right Arm (no Left Arm activity) proceed to lift and lower the Left Arm to your heart's content. Notice that the Left Arm is completely passive and the 'work' is being done with the bending Right Elbow (via the Biceps) as the Right Deltoid (Shoulder muscle) lifts the Right Arm. The only differences between this action and your actual Backstroke are (1) you are lifting and lowering in a vertical plane in this drill versus an Inclined Plane in your Golf Stroke and (2) there is no Pivot in the drill and there is in the actual Stroke.
I held my Left Arm out in front of me, chest high, with the Left thumb pointing upwards, grasped the Left Wrist with the thumb and forefinger of my Right Hand, right thumb on top, right forefinger below.
Bending the Right Elbow to raise the Left Arm, causes the Left Arm to bend at the Left Elbow in unison with the bending of the Right Elbow. Try it.
Even with Extensor Action i.e. pulling the Left Arm straight out in front of you, with the thumb and forefinger of the Right Hand, it is difficult to prevent some bending of the Left Arm at the elbow.
Another problem is that the Right Forearm is moving in a circular motion, up and down, from level, and the passive Left Arm automatically responds to this shortening radius by bending the Left Elbow, as it has nowhere else to go.
Personally I believe that this exercise is better done with the Left Arm positioned across the chest to the Right, pointing to about 2 o'clock (body facing 12 o'clock). Now exert Extensor Action, the pulling of the Left Wrist towards 2 o'clock by the thumb and forefinger of the Right Hand, at the same time bracing the Left Shoulder against this pull (the Left Tricep action you describe) -- a two-way stretch.
Now the circular motion of the Right Arm as it bends at the Right Elbow, and lifts and lower the Left Arm, allows the Left Arm to also describe a circular motion and resultant bending at the Left Elbow is minimal.
Okay, we're making this thing a lot harder than it is. The exercise is simplicity itself -- at least it is when demonstrated -- and I'm afraid that people now will miss the whole point.
The point of the exercise was not to be "golf-like." The point was ...
How does the right arm and elbow act -- and what muscles are involved -- when you pick something up?
So let's just forget the left arm altogether and do a new drill.
Sitting or standing or lying down, just raise your right hand above your shoulder (as if to get a teacher's attention in class). That's the way the right arm works in the golf Stroke. Without of course, the constraints imposed on it by the left arm and the Inclined Plane of motion.
The triceps straighten the arm and the deltoids lift it.
In the Golf Stroke, the Checkrein Action of the Left Arm causes the Right Elbow to bend, and this also brings the Right Biceps into play (on the Backstroke only). So, we have the triceps, biceps and deltoids all involved in an integrated way to transport the Hands -- and the Club they hold -- to the Top of the Stroke.
I think it is basic anatomy that both triceps and biceps cannot be active at the same time. Is it possible that Right Arm Extensor Action on the backswing is entirely due to right arm fanning?
I think it is basic anatomy that both triceps and biceps cannot be active at the same time. Is it possible that Right Arm Extensor Action on the backswing is entirely due to right arm fanning?
Scott
Hi Scott,
I am in no way an expert in in human physiology. However, I can tell you that I apply Extensor Action with my Right Triceps and at the same time experience Right Elbow bend (due to the Checkrein Action of the Left Arm).
Since the Biceps bend the Elbow, I can only conclude that it is possible for both Triceps and Biceps to be simultaneously actuated. Maybe someone more qualified can add insight here.
Yoda, I just think we have to be clear in our descriptions of bodily actions. For example in #24 Mathew wrote..
Quote:
It has absolutely nothing to do with not cocking the right wrist. It has everything to do with the all encompassing, imperative maintainance of the inclined plane. Those who do not teach the right forearm pickup, do not really teach plane.
I don't know if Mathew realizes it but the first sentence uses a double negative and translates to "It has absolutely everything to do with cocking the right wrist." which I am sure was not his intention.
Yoda, I just think we have to be clear in our descriptions of bodily actions. For example in #24 Mathew wrote..
I don't know if Mathew realizes it but the first sentence uses a double negative and translates to "It has absolutely everything to do with cocking the right wrist." which I am sure was not his intention.
I'll put my hand down now, and go back to sleep.
Any start-up that is on any plane requires the right forearm to raise the primary lever assembly. That includes for example - the hands only plane... even with the right wrist being in a cocked state....
My bad with the confusion but not cocking the right wrist might be a positive result that can come of it, but hardly the purpose of the right forearm pickup...
Any start-up that is on any plane requires the right forearm to raise the primary lever assembly. That includes for example - the hands only plane... even with the right wrist being in a cocked state....
My bad with the confusion but not cocking the right wrist might be a positive result that can come of it, but hardly the purpose of the right forearm pickup...
Is "my bad with the confusion" admitting that you used a double negative?
Yoda, I just think we have to be clear in our descriptions of bodily actions.
I'll put my hand down now, and go back to sleep.
I wholeheartedly agree, Weightshift, and I do my best. It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly simple actions (when demonstrated) can be so difficult to describe in a step-by-step process (especially without the benefit of photos or video, which unfortunately, take time to produce).
Is "my bad with the confusion" admitting that you used a double negative?
Let it go, Weightshift. You made your point the first time, and Mathew responded in a civil way. This is a Golf Forum, not an English Lit class, and you are not the Grammar Police.
Your critical posts are appreciated when they pertain to golf. They are not appreciated -- nor will they be tolerated -- when they become condescending and mean-spirited.
Now let's get back to helping one another learn more about Golf.
Okay, we're making this thing a lot harder than it is. The exercise is simplicity itself -- at least it is when demonstrated -- and I'm afraid that people now will miss the whole point.
The point of the exercise was not to be "golf-like." The point was ...
How does the right arm and elbow act -- and what muscles are involved -- when you pick something up?
So let's just forget the left arm altogether and do a new drill.
Sitting or standing or lying down, just raise your right hand above your shoulder (as if to get a teacher's attention in class). That's the way the right arm works in the golf Stroke. Without of course, the constraints imposed on it by the left arm and the Inclined Plane of motion.
The triceps straighten the arm and the deltoids lift it.
In the Golf Stroke, the Checkrein Action of the Left Arm causes the Right Elbow to bend, and this also brings the Right Biceps into play (on the Backstroke only). So, we have the triceps, biceps and deltoids all involved in an integrated way to transport the Hands -- and the Club they hold -- to the Top of the Stroke.
This just made lights go off in Bucket's BRAIN CELL . . . I am luuuuuuuuuuuving this post . . .
Boss . . . just to be sure my feeble Pooh Bear brain is on this.
You DO NOT cock the Right Elbow in the Right Forearm Pick Up? You just raise your hand as if "Yo teach!!! I gotta go POTTY!!!!" And because your right arm is connected to your left via the grip . . . your Right Elbow bends/cocks as a result of the Checkrein of the Left Arm?
This is a subtle one. . . hold up gotta bounce I think I hear a FOG HORN!!!!!
and go back to sleep.
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