Nice artwork Nuke...Loading action.....Resisting versus throwing it on to the pressure point??????..Directly opposed to the on-plane loading action.......NICE!!!! Loading Action...
First, we use the same shoe company. That's where the similarities end. It's Els if you didn't recognize the legs.
Loading and the #3 pressure point:
Hitter has a Fixed Lag Pressure Point (10-11-0-3), and Swingers have a Rotating Lag Pressure Point.
I think you can clearly see in the picture that Els is Loading the top of the shaft, as the entire shaft is laying on the knuckle. And, I'm Loading the back of the shaft, as the shaft and left arm look to be laying in the first joint. He takes a 5 Iron to End, and I'm taking a Driver to Top.
I've drawn the arrow to ask, where would I feel the Load?
Just when you thought this thread couldn't get any better . . .
You have just driven home a very very subtle point that is easy for a lot of savy Machinist to miss . . . Great pictures!
If you had the face on view, would the swinger's shaft BOW more assuming there were enough lag pressure to get'r done?
Also . . . Would that be a DOWEL laying at Easy E's feet?
First, we use the same shoe company. That's where the similarities end. It's Els if you didn't recognize the legs.
Loading and the #3 pressure point:
Hitter has a Fixed Lag Pressure Point (10-11-0-3), and Swingers have a Rotating Lag Pressure Point.
I think you can clearly see in the picture that Els is Loading the top of the shaft, as the entire shaft is laying on the knuckle. And, I'm Loading the back of the shaft, as the shaft and left arm look to be laying in the first joint. He takes a 5 Iron to End, and I'm taking a Driver to Top.
I've drawn the arrow to ask, where would I feel the Load?
Great pics Ted - really captures the 'feel' difference of the loading action - side of the shaft (hitter) vs top of shaft (swinger)
Not to take this thread off on a tangent, but these pictures suggest that plane angle may (or may not) be a factor in the rotation of the pressure point.
The flatter the plane angle, the more likely the pressure point would not 'need' to rotate, the steeper the plane angle, the more the pressure point would need to rotate, to stay on plane - everything else being equal that is. Always exceptions (Nicklaus and Hogan for example) - both of whom had to actively 'do' something with their hands (single vs standard wrist action). Perhaps those 'opposite trends' helped them never go left
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
EdZ, I like your post. Could you explain further, the
exception, that Hogan used. Did Hogan use rotating lag
pressure? I have a hard time seeing the rotation in
pictures of his swing. Thanks, Donn.
EdZ, I like your post. Could you explain further, the
exception, that Hogan used. Did Hogan use rotating lag
pressure? I have a hard time seeing the rotation in
pictures of his swing. Thanks, Donn.
In photos where he has the 'cup' (double wrist action), you can see it (page 63 5 Lessons, although not a good angle)- pretty much a given if you have a 10-2-A grip and a cup at the top, especially with a startup swivel.
All of those combine to a very open clubface, which let Hogan fire as hard as he wanted through the shot and never fear that he would close the clubface. The same thing with a steeper plane angle would risk a high right side and a pull or pull hook IMO. In a sense, Hogan almost used 'getting stuck' to his advantage (see page 91 and 95) - which the flatter plane angle allowed, but a steeper one (ala Byron or Watson) wouldn't.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Great pics Ted - really captures the 'feel' difference of the loading action - side of the shaft (hitter) vs top of shaft (swinger)
Not to take this thread off on a tangent, but these pictures suggest that plane angle may (or may not) be a factor in the rotation of the pressure point.
The flatter the plane angle, the more likely the pressure point would not 'need' to rotate, the steeper the plane angle, the more the pressure point would need to rotate, to stay on plane - everything else being equal that is. Always exceptions (Nicklaus and Hogan for example) - both of whom had to actively 'do' something with their hands (single vs standard wrist action). Perhaps those 'opposite trends' helped them never go left
I think that you could throw both of those guys in the "never go left" category.
Hogan hated going left almost as much as he hated putting in the later years.
I placed a portion of your post in bold . . . I think this is something that we all could benefit from by a bit more expansion on the subject . . . HOW DO YOU GET A "NEOPHITE" HITTER TO ABANDON THE FEAR OF NOT HAVING THE FACE SQUARE TO THE PLANE LINE AND MATCHING THE TWO LINES OF FLIGHT?
This thread is pure genius! Superb job on the camera work! This will clear a bunch of fog for many . . . if they are willing to read and understand.
Great job!
Thanks Bucket,
I'll try to give you my perspective when Hitting. I see both the lines at Address. I imagine a dowel laying in front of the ball as my Ball Line of Flight. And, I imagine a dowel laying in front of the ball as the extension of the 10-5-E Plane Line, out to right field.
I use the first dowel to align my Clubface. Once I'm done with the Clubface alignment, that imaginary dowel evaporates. Then, the only thing is see is the Clubhead covering the Plane Line (the 2nd imaginary dowel) in my waggle above the ball.
As an aside: The same 'matching' of Clubface and Plane Line can be Deadly in a bunker, when using Open-Open.
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Yoda knows...and he taught me!
For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.
Last edited by YodasLuke : 07-25-2006 at 02:25 PM.
As we have mentioned Neophite Hitters in this thread and as I consider myself to be one, Ted, could you post a picture with actual dowels on the ground to illustrate what you were talking about in your latest post, i.e. one to represent the Line of flight of the ball and one "as the extension of the 10-5-E Plane Line, out to right field". It would help with the age old question, how far out to right are we talking, atleast for your pattern?
Those that think they are 4 barrel swinging, really don't know hitting.
Hitting is an all out push with the right arm that drives the ball to the earths core. It's a shotputter effort, a one handed pushup, a hard steady press of a shovel into soft earth with just the right arm. The only thing that stops the driving right arm is that you will dislocate the left arm from it's shoulder socket at both arms straight if you don't stop driving. OK I'm being a bit exuberant, but the point is there is a significant effort and centrifigal force just doesn't stand a chance.
Bagger
The guy on GEA said I could pull and push at the same time (the only thing that Homer said couldn't happen). He said Swinging and Hitting were the same thing. It was just someone's perspective that made the feelings different. I think he needed to do some more !
It's Els if you didn't recognize the legs.
!
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