I'm fighting an over the top move in my downswing (on video my right shoulder moves *out* ever so slightly instead of *down*). This is enough to cause a shank in the short irons or pulls
After reading around here i know that the right shoulder has to go down, what is the best way to train this when you've been used to it going out for so long (been playing with it 15 years or more i guess) (again it's only a small move maybe an inch or so)
Drills etc more than welcome !!
Thanks
A couple additional areas to check at setup that can contribute
an overly wide stance
a left foot that is too 'square' to the line at address
A right forearm that is too high at address (bad grip)
Shoulder line open at address
All of these limit your ability to pivot properly.
Hit some shots with your feet together until you can stay in balance.
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A couple additional areas to check at setup that can contribute
an overly wide stance
a left foot that is too 'square' to the line at address
A right forearm that is too high at address (bad grip)
Shoulder line open at address
All of these limit your ability to pivot properly.
Hit some shots with your feet together until you can stay in balance.
Yep checked those things and all seem ok with mirror work e.g. left foot fanned, right forearm on plane. Seems i just can't get my mind to get the down instead of out...
Take an old shaft, with the head no longer on the end. Set up to the ball with a regular club as you normally would. HOld the regular club with your left hand and take the 'headless' shaft and place it into the ground paralell to your clubshaft angle...kind of like this \\. I have done this while hitting balls. Although the two shafts can be about 6" apart, the visual looking down appears as though the shaft are really close. It always help me (first in slow motion) feel what needs to be done to get 'under' the headless shaft. If I don't get under...WHACK...into the headless shaft. It doesn't hurt or ruin your club, just makes a loud sound!
Only ohter thing I've done to help is (again first in slo mo) go the the top and just as you start down, feel as though you do a right shoulder shrug (as in weight lifting) before going back down. In essence, it feels as though you roll your right shoulder back....
FL-John
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The first thing you probably need to do is fix your club face. Comming OTT is a reaction to a club face that if not square when the ball leaves it at separation; "Too Open". Most likely because of a left hand that is out of position to begin with; "Rotated Too Far Counter-Clockwise with your left thumb on top of the grip". Try rotating your Left hand clockwise with your left thumb on the aft side of the grip (Strong Single Action 10-2-B)or until the ball no longer goes right.
Then read the following thread in regard to the Role of the Right Shoulder in the Emergency Room Swingers section:
Once you understand how the Right Shoulder works, if you start hitting behind the ball, you need understand how a Swinger uses and doesn't use the Right Arm. A Transfer of Momentum (CF) will uncock the Swingers Left Wrist and Right Elbow, both are passive, but never whippy. No need to push with the Right Arm. If you do, you will need to keep your eyes closed at Impact or wear glasses, because they will be filled with dirt.
The first thing you probably need to do is fix your club face. Comming OTT is a reaction to a club face that if not square when the ball leaves it at separation; "Too Open". Most likely because of a left hand that is out of position to begin with; "Rotated Too Far Counter-Clockwise with your left thumb on top of the grip". Try rotating your Left hand clockwise with your left thumb on the aft side of the grip (Strong Single Action 10-2-B)or until the ball no longer goes right.
Then read the following thread in regard to the Role of the Right Shoulder in the Emergency Room Swingers section:
Once you understand how the Right Shoulder works, if you start hitting behind the ball, you need understand how a Swinger uses and doesn't use the Right Arm. A Transfer of Momentum (CF) will uncock the Swingers Left Wrist and Right Elbow, both are passive, but never whippy. No need to push with the Right Arm. If you do, you will need to keep your eyes closed at Impact or wear glasses, because they will be filled with dirt.
I've got a strong single action grip with the left thumb on the aft of the shaft... never hit a slice or fade in my life all the bad ones are pulls or pull hooks. Probably been aiming too far right in the past and then pull hooking it back to the target. Never ever ever any left to right movement of the ball....
I know the moment i come OTT that it's either going to be a slight pull, pull hook or shank......... I know what the right shoulder *should* be doing... it's just how to re-program the computer and i've yet to find anything that seems to make a difference when the ball is sitting there.....
Sorry don't want to sound ungrateful and all the answers so far are much appreciated.. just frustrating !!
Did you try the following drill, supplied by kmmcnabb (Kevin):
I began trying to work my right shoulder down and had a heck of a time. I then thought, get my left shoulder up on the downswing and the right will go down. Worked some but not all of the time.
Then one night, on TGC, I saw Martin Hall demonstrate a drill that helped me tremendously. You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.
This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling. The only drawback has been that now I have to ensure I don't come under a bit (which is far better than over).
Been drawing the ball for the first time.....ever in my playing life and it is great. My buddies have noticed too since my distance immediately improved. Another side issue is that I have noticed my wrist cock now is much deeper into my swing than before which I have attributed to my shoulders pulling my hands down rather than me hitting with my hands from the top.
Try this........I have shown this to a few folks on the range, and it has worked for everyone that has tried it.
... never hit a slice or fade in my life all the bad ones are pulls or pull hooks. Probably been aiming too far right in the past and then pull hooking it back to the target. Never ever ever any left to right movement of the ball....
Your Computer (Brain) is aiming your Machine to the right because your Left Wrist is probably Bending at Impact, resulting in a loss of Rhythm. Educate your Hands to feel a Flat Left Wrist and a Bent Right Wrist at Impact. Put your Mind into your Hands, without any regard to the Club itself. Once your ball flight begins going to the right your Computer will re-align you back to the left toward your target.
Thanks for the compliment. Indeed this does work for all that try it. I have found for myself that it can refresh your memory by using it to warm up and stretch. This drill gives the same feeling that you will get with the powerangle pro (I have one, so I know) without having to carry it around in your bag.
Hope the above is clear explaination. Try it. It will work. What I found is that I needed to move my hips laterally toward the target to get room to move my right should down plane. Once I got that feeling (using the drill), it is easier to do.
I don't think I can come over the top at all now. I now find I am hitting it right (no left at all) and am working on my hinge action which I know is not great.
Good luck.
Kevin
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Kevin
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Hope the above is clear explaination. Try it. It will work. What I found is that I needed to move my hips laterally toward the target to get room to move my right should down plane. Once I got that feeling (using the drill), it is easier to do.
Thanks Kevin, tried it last night and found quite a big difference to my normal 'feel'
The main thing being is that i now have a LOT more tilt than i did before - feels strange but i guess thats what it should do when you've been used to having your shoulders almost level at impact for so long
Feels almost like i'd be hitting the ball on the upswing with that much tilt... haven't had a chance to hit any balls yet but will try it out.
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