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  #51  
Old 07-07-2007, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hennybogan View Post
Bucket,

The target directs our process.

Sing like no one is listening. Dance like nobody is watching. Love like you've never been hurt. Play like we're not keeping score.


So what do you do all those other times when the target does not speak to you (or you don't listen)? You act like you would if it did. That is your process. Act like you do when you know exactly the shot you want to play and how to do it. (The ball does not know how important this shot is to us. It will respond to the geometry).

HB

Great post! Nice jab too! Mike O will be knocking at your door in the gimp suit soon . . .

Target directs the process. Like that a lot. My stromie Drewitgolfsurfer says "Your target is the ball . . . the green is the ball's target." So it all comes down to the process basically being . . . picking a target and a shot letting it go and making a motion . . . learning how to overcome downstroke blackout . . . the the motion make the shot PROCESS.

Why do you think the the guys that hit it straight hit it straight? Does it start in the mind or in the hands or both?

Dance like nobody is watching . . . Mike O makes love while nobody's in the room.
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  #52  
Old 07-08-2007, 12:54 AM
Hennybogan Hennybogan is offline
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Process
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket View Post
Great post! Nice jab too! Mike O will be knocking at your door in the gimp suit soon . . .

Target directs the process. Like that a lot. My stromie Drewitgolfsurfer says "Your target is the ball . . . the green is the ball's target." So it all comes down to the process basically being . . . picking a target and a shot letting it go and making a motion . . . learning how to overcome downstroke blackout . . . the the motion make the shot PROCESS.

Why do you think the the guys that hit it straight hit it straight? Does it start in the mind or in the hands or both?

Dance like nobody is watching . . . Mike O makes love while nobody's in the room.

Bucket,

Defining the target is my big part of the equation. Learning how to think out a shot. That should be a big part of the content that I provide. I'm not sure there is one correct answer for everyone about the best way to do the "process." It is important that you have a process that includes the vital steps.

As far as what to think or feel when you are actually swinging, do what you need to do. I do think that the more you make your swing the same way time after time, the less concious thought needs to be employed (Litzke). When you are re-training a motion you will need more thought and practice swings (Faldo). I am reading up on "being in the zone." It's pretty deep. I'll let you know what I find out. Give me a day or two.

Straight hitters have good swings. I'm not sure about the mind and the hands. They tend to be level headed. They also are good at picking targets and trusting their swings to send the ball there. They don't hit many bad shots, so they don't get alot of noise about the trouble. They expect the ball to go where they aim. There is also the 100 in a row freethrow shooter in them. "I've made the last 75, so I should be able to make this one." Not--"I'm due for a miss." I also think their swings tend to be a little less dynamic. Not necessarily shorter, but not the type that really slings it.

HB
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  #53  
Old 07-08-2007, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hennybogan View Post
Bucket,

Defining the target is my big part of the equation. Learning how to think out a shot. That should be a big part of the content that I provide. I'm not sure there is one correct answer for everyone about the best way to do the "process." It is important that you have a process that includes the vital steps.

As far as what to think or feel when you are actually swinging, do what you need to do. I do think that the more you make your swing the same way time after time, the less concious thought needs to be employed (Litzke). When you are re-training a motion you will need more thought and practice swings (Faldo). I am reading up on "being in the zone." It's pretty deep. I'll let you know what I find out. Give me a day or two.

Straight hitters have good swings. I'm not sure about the mind and the hands. They tend to be level headed. They also are good at picking targets and trusting their swings to send the ball there. They don't hit many bad shots, so they don't get alot of noise about the trouble. They expect the ball to go where they aim. There is also the 100 in a row freethrow shooter in them. "I've made the last 75, so I should be able to make this one." Not--"I'm due for a miss." I also think their swings tend to be a little less dynamic. Not necessarily shorter, but not the type that really slings it.

HB
How do you reckon them dudes develop such TRUST? Is it from banging 1000's of balls? Or something else? Do they just have it in 'em?
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  #54  
Old 07-08-2007, 09:20 PM
Hennybogan Hennybogan is offline
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Trust
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket View Post
How do you reckon them dudes develop such TRUST? Is it from banging 1000's of balls? Or something else? Do they just have it in 'em?
Bucket,

A trustworthy golf swing must be built through diligent effort. While it does not have to be perfect, the swing needs to produce quality golf shots time after time. To one degree or another every tour player has done this work. At some point in their lives, they have beat the balls. Many pros realize that the swing is just one part of the package, and they choose to spend more effort on routine, scoring, and management.

Of course, many pros strive to improve, and if they are fortunate and discerning, they get quality instruction and do make progress. Changing the swing will require more range work in the short term (maybe years). The better the swing, the less maintainence it should require, and the more reliable it should be under pressure. Tournament golf requires attention to every detail including fitness and rest. Players sometimes wear themselves out looking for confidence instead of preparing to play.

One of the big factors in trust is the nature of the miss. We all know how devastating the double cross can be. Ideally, the miss should fail to work towards the target rather curving across the target. My current preference is for a small draw that never crosses my stance line. Understanding the required alignments for the shot at hand should enhance confidence. Along those lines, as I develop my swing, I work only on this pattern. I'm just trying to make the same swing on every shot. Same set up--same thoughts. I will vary the amount of effort, but not the shape. So I only have to control a small number of factors.

So let's say we have a swing good enough to trust. What now? Trust is an individual thing. Some players feel like they earn good play through hard work. They hit ball after ball on the range to build confidence (VJ, Strange). Others don't need to put in so much effort on their swings to be confident. It may rest as much on their upbringing as their swings. The player's formula may flow from a lifetime of success or be forged in the long struggle for success.

Regardless of how hard you work, at some point you have to decide you have it. It is worthline to decide this every time you play and re-evaluate after the round. The point of all the work is to end up with a reliable swing. Trust is a skill that must be cultivated. Often a player distrusts his swing when the root of the problem is in judgement or routine. A player can stumble from trying a shot that he does not have or is more difficult than required.

The formula for success is building a strong swing and understanding the cause and effect. Then hitting lots of good shots and few poor ones. Then letting the poor ones go. You have to accept that you will hit some of those, say equal to your handicap, and move on.

Short game is clearly a factor as well. The difference in level of damage a poor shot causes is related to the score. Making a good chip and holing the putt changes the whole dynamic. The more confidant the player is on his ability to score, the less pressure he puts on his swing.

HB
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  #55  
Old 07-08-2007, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hennybogan View Post
Bucket,

A
One of the big factors in trust is the nature of the miss. We all know how devastating the double cross can be. Ideally, the miss should fail to work towards the target rather curving across the target. My current preference is for a small draw that never crosses my stance line. Understanding the required alignments for the shot at hand should enhance confidence. Along those lines, as I develop my swing, I work only on this pattern. I'm just trying to make the same swing on every shot. Same set up--same thoughts. I will vary the amount of effort, but not the shape. So I only have to control a small number of factors.


Regardless of how hard you work, at some point you have to decide you have it. It is worthline to decide this every time you play and re-evaluate after the round. The point of all the work is to end up with a reliable swing. Trust is a skill that must be cultivated. Often a player distrusts his swing when the root of the problem is in judgement or routine. A player can stumble from trying a shot that he does not have or is more difficult than required.

The formula for success is building a strong swing and understanding the cause and effect. Then hitting lots of good shots and few poor ones. Then letting the poor ones go. You have to accept that you will hit some of those, say equal to your handicap, and move on.

Short game is clearly a factor as well. The difference in level of damage a poor shot causes is related to the score. Making a good chip and holing the putt changes the whole dynamic. The more confidant the player is on his ability to score, the less pressure he puts on his swing.

HB
Amazing stuff!

I have never thought about developing a shot that never misses across your stance line. I assume if you fade it there's a 'line' there too? How do you work on that deal?

This has to be the best thread on the site.

Thanks dude!
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  #56  
Old 07-08-2007, 10:35 PM
Hennybogan Hennybogan is offline
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The line
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket View Post
Amazing stuff!

I have never thought about developing a shot that never misses across your stance line. I assume if you fade it there's a 'line' there too? How do you work on that deal?

This has to be the best thread on the site.

Thanks dude!
Bucket,

It might seem strange but when I faded it, I had two lines, one for driver and one for irons. I wanted the driver to end up right of my toe line. I had three shots: heel cut (low and a little shorter with more curve), straight shot, and the right rocket. I did not know when they were coming, but it did not matter. I aimed just inside the left rough and hit it hard (think Duval). A bad one would be just in the left rough or right rough. With the irons, I wanted a pull cut to straight. I wanted to know that it would not go too much right, not cross target line. It is a very easy way to play. Eliminate half the course. I took some years off and it all changed.

How to work on that deal. Claude Harmon (from BH's The Pro) used to drop his considerable money clip on the range in front of his boys and say, "If I hit one left of that flag you can split the money." The boys never got any. That's practicing with a purpose and under real pressue.

I'll let you tell me how to hit a draw that never crosses your feet.

HB
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  #57  
Old 07-08-2007, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hennybogan View Post
Bucket,

It might seem strange but when I faded it, I had two lines, one for driver and one for irons. I wanted the driver to end up right of my toe line. I had three shots: heel cut (low and a little shorter with more curve), straight shot, and the right rocket. I did not know when they were coming, but it did not matter. I aimed just inside the left rough and hit it hard (think Duval). A bad one would be just in the left rough or right rough. With the irons, I wanted a pull cut to straight. I wanted to know that it would not go too much right, not cross target line. It is a very easy way to play. Eliminate half the course. I took some years off and it all changed.

How to work on that deal. Claude Harmon (from BH's The Pro) used to drop his considerable money clip on the range in front of his boys and say, "If I hit one left of that flag you can split the money." The boys never got any. That's practicing with a purpose and under real pressue.

I'll let you tell me how to hit a draw that never crosses your feet.

HB
BH as in B=Ben H=Hogan???

Angled Hinge it?

Dude just when I think I can't get no better . . . you just make it better.
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  #58  
Old 07-09-2007, 12:00 AM
Hennybogan Hennybogan is offline
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Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket View Post
BH as in B=Ben H=Hogan???

Angled Hinge it?

Dude just when I think I can't get no better . . . you just make it better.
Bucket,

BH--just a typo.

You're the hinge action guy, so I'll defer. I'm rifling through the files here to catch up. I think in terms of face and path.

HB
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  #59  
Old 07-09-2007, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hennybogan View Post
Bucket,

BH--just a typo.

You're the hinge action guy, so I'll defer. I'm rifling through the files here to catch up. I think in terms of face and path.

HB
Ball spins because of divergence right? So path slightly across target line and clubface square to target line at separation?

You may have much more detailed info on this . . . but I read that the face has much more weight with regards to the direction equation than the path like 75 to 80%? I'm still sorting all that out.
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  #60  
Old 07-09-2007, 09:21 AM
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More Gems
The formula for success is building a strong swing and understanding the cause and effect. Then hitting lots of good shots and few poor ones. Then letting the poor ones go. You have to accept that you will hit some of those, say equal to your handicap, and move on.

Short game is clearly a factor as well. The difference in level of damage a poor shot causes is related to the score. Making a good chip and holing the putt changes the whole dynamic. The more confidant the player is on his ability to score, the less pressure he puts on his swing.


WOW!!

WOW!!

WOW!!

The jewels just keep on coming. Great, great postings.

Thank you so much for your contributions. Has anyone signed you to a book deal yet?

Not you, Buckey. Have another moon pie.

UPP in steamy Ohio
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