Ball spins because of divergence right? So path slightly across target line and clubface square to target line at separation?
You may have much more detailed info on this . . . but I read that the face has much more weight with regards to the direction equation than the path like 75 to 80%? I'm still sorting all that out.
Bucket,
I read alot here about face square at separation. I agree that a straight shot might be the optimal one in terms of the physics. I like a little curve in the shot, both for my eye and to give margin for error.
My understanding is of the condition is the face aligned between target line and path in equal amounts would result in a shot that curves to the target. For example, path 4 degrees right and face 2 degrees open. I think in terms of having the face open enough and not swinging too far right so the ball does not over-hook. I don't mind sending the ball a little right.
i sware i havent followed a thread 6times a day in along time. This one is well worth it....
Henny, seems to me that there a fewer and fewer natural different swings out there on tour, you know the days of chichi, nicklaus, palmer and trevino had very different styles and the characters that came with it it seems...
its looking alot like cookycutter swings these days, is that a fad or fact of knowledge and general teaching? i'd like you view on this...maybe there still are a few characters you know of that im not thinking of besides freaky furyk of course!
just looks alot the same these days....is that good?
thanks!
i sware i havent followed a thread 6times a day in along time. This one is well worth it....
Henny, seems to me that there a fewer and fewer natural different swings out there on tour, you know the days of chichi, nicklaus, palmer and trevino had very different styles and the characters that came with it it seems...
its looking alot like cookycutter swings these days, is that a fad or fact of knowledge and general teaching? i'd like you view on this...maybe there still are a few characters you know of that im not thinking of besides freaky furyk of course!
just looks alot the same these days....is that good?
thanks!
Powerdraw,
More uniform does not necessarily mean better. My guess is the advent of TV and video is the cause of the cookie cutter scene. Young golfers, often adept at visual learning, have greater opportunity to see the tour swings of today and model them. They tend to "look" more like golfers. I don't know that modern teaching (present company excluded) has done a great service to the functionality of the swing other than producing powerful drivers of the ball.
The golf channel has been showing Shell's WWoG and others. Some nice looks at great swings from the 50's and 60's. It may be unfortunate for the current generation that the viewing of those swings was not more readily available as today's models were being formed.
I think that the swing fads will continue. People always copy the top players. Some say Hogan and then Nicklaus had too much influence on their public's swings. Our mission should be to get some nicely aligned golfers in front of the public eye a little more often for the sake of future generations. I know the boys here are working on it.
awesome....as for the golf channel shell thing, having my first kid, now 6months old, i have had many a early morning shell show from 4am too 6am...the pleasure of watching naturals go at it and even commentating their opponents next shot!!!! wouldnt that be blast to see tiger decipher a phil mickey special live!
personnal opinion, (im going back to the different swings topic), is that having a chance to see more than one way to skin a cat leads to finding different personnalitys and 'sellability' of the game as well....
i mean, if everyone wrote the same way, you will never notice and applaud a good writer...same for the swing imo....
my dad always sang 'i did it myyyyyy wayyyyyy'....lol.
i think you are correct, there should be a mix of examples and results.
nice pickin your brain, no wonder some send a 'bucket' load of questions
awesome....as for the golf channel shell thing, having my first kid, now 6months old, i have had many a early morning shell show from 4am too 6am...the pleasure of watching naturals go at it and even commentating their opponents next shot!!!! wouldnt that be blast to see tiger decipher a phil mickey special live!
personnal opinion, (im going back to the different swings topic), is that having a chance to see more than one way to skin a cat leads to finding different personnalitys and 'sellability' of the game as well....
i mean, if everyone wrote the same way, you will never notice and applaud a good writer...same for the swing imo....
my dad always sang 'i did it myyyyyy wayyyyyy'....lol.
i think you are correct, there should be a mix of examples and results.
nice pickin your brain, no wonder some send a 'bucket' load of questions
Powerdraw,
I've got some great footage from the shows of Player, Palmer, Snead, Venturi, Nelson, etc. Fun to watch.
As far as marketing, I think the tour is missing the bus. There are contributing factors. They promote only a select few, so when someone else wins it's Cinderella. Often, Cinderella has been making a steady run for years. The courses the tour selects, esp TPC, may provide drama of miss or make, but they don't offer a wide range of possible shots. Most courses want long, high shots. The players adapt to the conditions.
Now the tour has the Fed Ex Cup. It's an artificial way to get the top players to play the same week. It may be a fantastic month of golf. I'm concerned about the tourneys after. The draw to tournaments for tour players (who can't play every week) begins with the golf course and the title. Purse matters too. If the tour played more great courses, we would see more great golf, with the top players facing each other.
Great post! Nice jab too! Mike O will be knocking at your door in the gimp suit soon . . .
Target directs the process. Like that a lot. My stromie Drewitgolfsurfer says "Your target is the ball . . . the green is the ball's target." So it all comes down to the process basically being . . . picking a target and a shot letting it go and making a motion . . . learning how to overcome downstroke blackout . . . the the motion make the shot PROCESS.
Why do you think the the guys that hit it straight hit it straight? Does it start in the mind or in the hands or both?
Dance like nobody is watching . . . Mike O makes love while nobody's in the room.
Bucket
I'm back ,chirping again
TARGET is everthing//// Players who hit it straight focus on their target, players who curve it focus on their target/// Players get in trouble when they get all hung up on results rather than being target oriented and just letting it happen. Example, last week, last hole Sunday (Cong) my pro tries to kill a 3wd and hit it way left into the trees. He gets a 'line of sight drop' but is still in the trees 200yds from front of green. Remember, this is his first week back after 4 Months off and his natural shot is not a draw/// He asks me if I think a 5 iron will run down to the green if he keeps it low and turns it, I say sure, I like it.
He takes the 5 iron, takes a couple of swings and hits this rocket which turns about 45 deg/ the ball splits the front of the green, dead centre and runs all the way to the back, about 20' from the pin//// Do you think there were many swing thoughts there, do you think he was concerned about results, or do you think he was thinking about his target and FEELING the shot.
We are walking to the green, the crowd is clapping and shouting, and he says, "I love those shots, they are so much fun to hit"
Also, a little putting example which may or may not fit in. My pro and I have putting contests from time to time. On Wed we have a 36 hole pull back tourn; pull back means that if you miss a put you have to pull it back the length of your putter and put again, so the shortest put you ever have is over 3'. After, 18 holes I have him 2 down and he says, whatever your thinking, just keep doing it. I thought about it for a second and then I replied, I'm not thinking about anything, I'm just looking at the hole and letting my brain figure everyhting else out. He said, I like it and the next 18 holes he made several long ones and no three putts.
By the way, he won, I was 4 over and he was 3. Again, it's all about your TARGET.
In a former life, I was a sniper and also instructed others. When you are setting up, you have to consider wind, humidity, elevation, temp., etc; IF YOU EVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BECOME CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESULTS, YOU ARE FINISHED///////
TARGET is everthing//// Players who hit it straight focus on their target, players who curve it focus on their target/// Players get in trouble when they get all hung up on results rather than being target oriented and just letting it happen. Example, last week, last hole Sunday (Cong) my pro tries to kill a 3wd and hit it way left into the trees. He gets a 'line of sight drop' but is still in the trees 200yds from front of green. Remember, this is his first week back after 4 Months off and his natural shot is not a draw/// He asks me if I think a 5 iron will run down to the green if he keeps it low and turns it, I say sure, I like it.
He takes the 5 iron, takes a couple of swings and hits this rocket which turns about 45 deg/ the ball splits the front of the green, dead centre and runs all the way to the back, about 20' from the pin//// Do you think there were many swing thoughts there, do you think he was concerned about results, or do you think he was thinking about his target and FEELING the shot.
We are walking to the green, the crowd is clapping and shouting, and he says, "I love those shots, they are so much fun to hit"
Also, a little putting example which may or may not fit in. My pro and I have putting contests from time to time. On Wed we have a 36 hole pull back tourn; pull back means that if you miss a put you have to pull it back the length of your putter and put again, so the shortest put you ever have is over 3'. After, 18 holes I have him 2 down and he says, whatever your thinking, just keep doing it. I thought about it for a second and then I replied, I'm not thinking about anything, I'm just looking at the hole and letting my brain figure everyhting else out. He said, I like it and the next 18 holes he made several long ones and no three putts.
By the way, he won, I was 4 over and he was 3. Again, it's all about your TARGET.
In a former life, I was a sniper and also instructed others. When you are setting up, you have to consider wind, humidity, elevation, temp., etc; IF YOU EVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BECOME CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESULTS, YOU ARE FINISHED///////
Good stuff! How do you connect target and feeling the shot?
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