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  #111  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:37 AM
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KevCarter KevCarter is offline
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Originally Posted by tim chapman View Post
very helpful Bernt - thank you

took these thoughts, together with 'down/out/forward compression' on the dog walk (with club & balls as usual) this morning & hit a few gooduns
Hall of Fame post by BerntR !!!

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  #112  
Old 11-18-2010, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KevCarter View Post
Hall of Fame post by BerntR !!!

Kevin
That's the most important thing about my thread - and all other threads - the important information that knowledgeable people are willing to share with us.
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  #113  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:16 PM
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Air, I'm sorry I haven't dropped by until now.
Originally Posted by airair View Post
The part about the color was just for fun. White golfballs you know. But covered with dirt - that should also work.
Work stuff has been hectic. I know you have made a tough decision about going to the Master's.

Let me try to be gentle about this... if a medieval Pope wanted to get to the Master's, he would have had to promise somebody 800 priests saying daily mass for their forgiveness for 80 years. If President Obama wanted to go, I think it would rain 30 inches because GOD would get angry. (I'm a Hubert Humphry guy.)

Since the your child is doing well, and congratulations BTW, why not consider taking the Mrs. to see the azaleas? I'm guessing she likes flowers? Does she like to fly? Does she enjoy the attention of nice Southerners? As the kids would say, "Feelin' me on this?"

Your countrymen will really enjoy the autographed hats and things you bring back and the stories about speaking with Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson and the signed photo of Win McMurray (don't show the Mrs. that one). Lynn might introduce you to all sorts of people!

Stories are like gold on the golf course while waiting for the foursome in front of you to make their 9th shot each on a par 3.

Anyway, you are a sensible guy by all indications...


ICT
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  #114  
Old 11-18-2010, 08:46 PM
airair airair is offline
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Originally Posted by innercityteacher View Post
Work stuff has been hectic. I know you have made a tough decision about going to the Master's.

Let me try to be gentle about this... if a medieval Pope wanted to get to the Master's, he would have had to promise somebody 800 priests saying daily mass for their forgiveness for 80 years. If President Obama wanted to go, I think it would rain 30 inches because GOD would get angry. (I'm a Hubert Humphry guy.)

Since the your child is doing well, and congratulations BTW, why not consider taking the Mrs. to see the azaleas? I'm guessing she likes flowers? Does she like to fly? Does she enjoy the attention of nice Southerners? As the kids would say, "Feelin' me on this?"

Your countrymen will really enjoy the autographed hats and things you bring back and the stories about speaking with Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson and the signed photo of Win McMurray (don't show the Mrs. that one). Lynn might introduce you to all sorts of people!

Stories are like gold on the golf course while waiting for the foursome in front of you to make their 9th shot each on a par 3.

Anyway, you are a sensible guy by all indications...


ICT
You don't have to apologize for anything - except for trying to tempt me. I have already made reservations in March, so that's final, however stupid it may be. You must be blessed with the gift of exaggerations. BTW my wife's interest in golf it about as great as ... (what do you have the least interest of here on earth?) I have already been introduced to some important people at Cuscowilla...Who needs much more than that? I'm sensible in only some areas..but I forget which.
(H. Humphry had roots in Norway I believe..(or Walter Mondale - or both - I can't remember)
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Last edited by airair : 11-19-2010 at 11:19 PM.
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  #115  
Old 11-19-2010, 06:32 AM
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Friday 19.11.10
P. 232-234

14-0 (The Computer)

As I posted earlier about why Homer Kelley titled the book 'The Golfing Machine', Homer viewed the golf swing like a machine that had 24 parts, 3-15 variations of each part and only 3 'imperatives' that each efficient machine must have.

It's very much like you and I would view an automobile, which is really a machine in its own right and has its own parts, variations of those parts and a few things it must have in order to be an efficient machine.

In the automobile, they utilize a computer in order to operate the machine and maintain its functionality. If your car is low on gas, the computer will monitor this and send a message to your dashboard and the 'low gas' light will go off telling the operate that they need fuel and usually the operator will then go to the gas station and fill up.

The Golfing Machine also has a computer according to Homer Kelley. In this case, the computer is the golfer's brain.

This part may sound a bit hokey or 'okay, the brain is our 'computer', but how does that translate to better golf', but it actually translates to better golf and in a quick fashion if the golfer uses their computer well. The better the golfer uses his computer, the better off they will be.

One of the things I wish I had been forced to do when I was younger was to play 'blade' forged irons. I am not a fan of offset clubs and in particular I'm not a fan of cast clubs that are very forgiving because I believe they do not allow the golfer to use their computer to their fullest capability which will allow them to have a much more precise stroke pattern and wind up with much better results.

With cast cavity back irons, it's very difficult to differentiate the feel between hitting a ball pretty well with a pretty good swing versus hitting a ball pretty well with a mediocre swing. Granted, I can differentiate with cast, cavity back irons a great swing and a poor swing...but, I don't have a lot of great swings and a lot of bad swings in a round. Most of my swings range in the mediocre to average to pretty good range. As Hogan said, he figured he hit about 3 shots a round just the way he wanted to. The difference between Hogan and somebody like myself is that 99% of his other shots were from really good, but not the greatest swings whereas probably 80% of my swings probably range in the average to very good but not great range.

Anyway...because it's very hard to differentiate the mediocre swing from the pretty decent swings, the computer can't make those subconscious and even conscious adjustments for me. However, with the blades there's a distinct difference that can be FELT when I take a pretty decent swing from a mediocre swing. That allows my computer to make the adjustments and the components of my swing improve. Garbage in will cause garbage out. Blades provide much better input, thus I produce much better output. The key IMO with irons is to find a set of irons that will provide quality input, but do not have harsh penalties when I do not catch one perfect.

Homer Kelley talks about a 'programming routine' that the golfer can use with their computer when it comes to their golf stroke.

Primary Programming Routine - The Computer must maintain the feel of your 'basic procedure.' So, operate 'basic motion' properly and then maintain the feel of that basic motion.

Second Programming Routine - Ball position to control the direction of the ball given the conditions (wind, side hills, hooks, slices, etc)

Third Programming Routine - Distance Control Data for Club Selection (lag pressure --- more lag pressure = more distance, turf and wind conditions, etc)

Fourth Programming Routine - feeling relationship of the alignments in the swing and the target. Homer believed that it's very easy for a golfer to have 'downstroke blackout' where the downswing happens so fast that they don't have any conscious thoughts or feels in the swing, which usually leads to disaster.

Fifth Programming Routine - a mental 'button' that wipes your mind of negative thoughts, anger, frustration, looking ahead to the next hole, etc and just focuses on your stroke instead.

I like to say that once I understood that TGM is a book about FEEL instead of mechanics and technical jargon, that's when I finally got what Homer Kelley was saying and I could use that to improve my golf game. 14-0 delves a bit into feel. There's a lot of talk about understanding and focusing on alignments, but there's a lot of talk about feel as well. Once you understand the role of feel in learning TGM and how to achieve the proper feels for your own game, the mechanics will follow. Like I've posted time and time again, learn feel FROM mechanics.

Read more: http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...x zz15fstkO6N

Extensor action:
Based on my own experience: In the backstroke the right arm wants to get straight(er). In so doing the right arm pulls the left arm as straight as possible.This is achieved in the backstroke by letting the 2 middle fingers of the right hand grip holding on to the end of the shaft - pull and stretch the clubshaft to the right (seen from the golfer's view) making the left arm, which is also holding on to the clubshaft, get pulled/stretched even straighter as a result of this motion. This will make the backstroke wider and the little shorter than it would be without this extensor action, placing the club in a better position to begin the downstroke on a more correct path?

This is extensor action in the backstroke, but I'm not sure if the middle fingers of the right hand do the job in the downstroke as well, or if it's more the role of the heel pad under the right thumb pushing against the left thumb?

Please feel free to expand on this important subject.

,,

In Physics, a Force is either a Push or a Pull. And, some people think of Extensor Action in terms of the Right Triceps pushing the Bent Right Arm against the Left Thumb. However, the defining concept is that the Right Triceps push of Extensor Action results in the Left Arm being stretched or pulled into a straight line. When you stretch something -- like a rubber band or a piece of string -- you are pulling it, not pushing it. You can pull a piece of string into a straight line, but you can't push it into one.

At the end of the day, if the Left Arm is stretched -- pulled into a straight line -- Extensor Action's purpose has been served. It matters little if that Action is alternatively perceived as a push of the Right Arm.
..

Extensor Action is employed from Impact Fix (or as late as Start Up) to the end of Follow Through. After that it is no longer in use (Finish). During the sections that Extensor Action is working its magic, the left arm is above the Plane (unless #3 is zero'ed out), necessitating the direction of the stretch to be below the Plane. But it does cross the Plane at the point of pressure directing the stretch. As you approach Top, the direction of the stretch is closer to the Plane Angle, but still below it.
..

The camera finds you wearing a rain jacket, windshirt or long sleeve shirt, but with your left arm out of its sleeve. With the sleeve dangling, you open with:

"Hi, I'm PGA golf professional BBax, and I'm here today to demonstrate how the two arms work in the golf swing. Oops, looks like I've forgotten to put my left arm in its sleeve. [Pick up the sleeve -- no stretch yet -- with the right hand and show it to the audience.] No matter . . . the left arm doesn't do all that much anyway. It functions like a piece of string. But we all know that the left arm -- the string -- needs to be straight, so it needs to be 'stretched out'. How do we do this? With the right arm! Like this." [Demonstrate a good stretch of the sleeve.]

"Now, how do we get this 'arm' to the top of the swing. Not by turning the shoulders! [Demonstrate.] And certainly not with the 'sleeve' itself! [Demo with chuckle: 'See, it won't move!'] Again, we use the right arm! " [Demonstrate how the bending right arm takes the sleeve to the top.]

"Notice that the right arm keeps stretching the sleeve. This same action in your golf swing will give it width and structure. But a lot of you stop stretching and so you look like this. [Demonstrate a backstroke with an unstretched sleeve.] So, your swing has no structure. It is flimsy. Keep that sleeve -- your left arm -- stretched!"

"Now, notice that the right arm can't be straight, it has to bend. That's because this sleeve is acting like a leash. See? [Demonstrate backstroke again]. Now it wants to be straight -- [Demo: let go of the sleeve halfway back and let the right arm rapidly extend and straighten out.] -- but it can't!"

"In fact, the right elbow gets more and more bent as it approaches the right shoulder [Demo backswing] and can't begin to straighten until it moves away from it [Demo release]. It can't be fully straight until well past the ball [Demo follow-through]."

"This is the way your arms work in the swing. The right arm lifts and lowers the left and keeps it stretched out. Now, go put on a jacket or a long sleeve shirt, but leave that left arm out of the sleeve. Get the feel. [Demo as you talk.] Without a jacket . . . [Quickly remove yours and toss it to the ground.] . . . simply grasp your left wrist with your right thumb and forefinger [Demo as you talk] and stretch that left arm! Now take it to the top, like this. [Demo as you talk.] Keep the stretch! [Demo] Into the downstroke, impact and followthrough. Keep the stretch! [Demo].

"Do this little drill for a few minutes a day, and you'll soon find yourself playing better golf. I'm PGA professional BBax, and I'll see you on the tee!"

Understand the Extensor Action Principle as defined and demonstrated in the post. Then, translate the Mechanic into its Feel.

Don't rely on your imagination: Put on a long sleeve shirt, sweater or jacket and actually do the 'armless sleeve' exercise. Keep that sleeve s-t-r-e-t--c-h-e-d from Address to Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). Then, make that Action happen in your Golf Stroke.

It's all you need to know.
..

You are always stretching the left arm in the direction it is pointing. Hence, the 'stretch' will always be Below Plane.

In addition to the 'Armless Sleeve' Drill (which can be replicated with a piece of string looped around the left shoulder), one of the best ways to get this Feel -- without a club -- is to grasp the left wrist with the fingers of the right hand (principally the thumb and forefinger) and simply take the left arm to the Top.

Then, do the same thing gripping the thumb and forefinger of the left hand with the last three fingers of the right hand.

Finally, just grip the left thumb, and make the same motion.

With a club, seek to reproduce these same Feels (of Extensor Action and the correct Right Elbow Action), and enjoy the fruit of your labor!

P.S. V.J. Trolio and I include several Extensor Action drills in the 26 drills we demonstrate on Disk #2 of Alignment Golf.
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Last edited by airair : 11-19-2010 at 11:20 PM.
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  #116  
Old 11-19-2010, 07:40 PM
airair airair is offline
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away from the cold
It's 20 F outside and it's going to be even colder all next week It's about time to take a trip to the deep south of Europe and in a week's time that's exactly what I'm going to do. I guess that's pretty much like travelling from Minnesota to Florida on vacation. About the same distance and same difference in temperature(?)
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Last edited by airair : 11-19-2010 at 09:53 PM.
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  #117  
Old 11-20-2010, 06:32 AM
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Saturday 20.11.10
10-0
P. 134 -137
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 10-0 gives a brief introduction to Chapter 10. In Chapter 10 it goes into the 24 components of the swing (aka, the golfing machine) and each variation of each component. Homer explains his system of number designation.

The first number is the chapter. The second number is the basic component. The 3rd digit, a letter, is the variation of the component.

So, when somebody refers to 10-1-E in 'The Golfing Machine', which is the cross hand grip, it basically reads as 10 is the chapter, 1 is the basic component which in this case is the basic grip, and E is the variation of the grip which in this case is the interlocking grip.

If I were to look for the baseball grip in TGM, it's designation is 10-1-B. Same chapter, same component, just different variation. If I wanted to look up 'single plane shift', that designation is 10-7-B. So, that designation has the same chapter (10), but a a different basic component (7) and then the variation of that component is the letter B.

At the bottom of page 134, Homer just gives the reader a listing, in alphabetical order, where the reader can find each basic component. For instance, 'Address' has a number '9' next to it. That just means that to find information in regards to the Address position, you have to go to the 10-9 section of chapter 10.

Read more: http://richie3jack.proboards.com/ind...x zz15jRh4FV1

Hacking

To hit at the ball and not thru it, produces hackers. Not good. But this is very natural for most high handicapers. Are there any good ways of getting rid of this problem? Drills etc. Awarenes of the problem is one thing, but there has to be a practical way as well, I hope, that can be recommended, so that not everybody guilty of this fault has to find the solution all by themselves.
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Last edited by airair : 11-20-2010 at 06:40 AM.
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  #118  
Old 11-20-2010, 09:53 PM
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Hacking, interesting.

If you move the ball to Low-point (opposite the Left Shoulder), then the Low-Point plane line and Impact plane line are virtually touching and share the same line. Try to visualize the orbiting sweetspot of the clubhead intersecting the center of the ball. At the exact (almost) center of the ball, the Impact and Low Point plane lines and Orbit of the Sweetspot intersect.

Hit some balls from the low-point location. You'll need a tee to raise the ball and clubhead orbit to prevent the clubhead from touching the grass. Watch the clubhead orbit. It travels down and out, strikes the ball, and then travels up and in. Draw the clubhead orbit path on the ground. Hit a few more balls to confirm that the clubhead covers the orbit arc'ed line you drew on the ground.

If you wanted to move the ball 3" behind Low-Point, would you place the ball on the Target line or would you place the ball on the line of the clubhead orbit arc that you drew on the ground?
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Last edited by Daryl : 11-20-2010 at 10:02 PM.
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  #119  
Old 11-20-2010, 10:43 PM
airair airair is offline
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Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
Hacking, interesting.

If you move the ball to Low-point (opposite the Left Shoulder), then the Low-Point plane line and Impact plane line are virtually touching and share the same line. Try to visualize the orbiting sweetspot of the clubhead intersecting the center of the ball. At the exact (almost) center of the ball, the Impact and Low Point plane lines and Orbit of the Sweetspot intersect.

Hit some balls from the low-point location. You'll need a tee to raise the ball and clubhead orbit to prevent the clubhead from touching the grass. Watch the clubhead orbit. It travels down and out, strikes the ball, and then travels up and in. Draw the clubhead orbit path on the ground. Hit a few more balls to confirm that the clubhead covers the orbit arc'ed line you drew on the ground.

If you wanted to move the ball 3" behind Low-Point, would you place the ball on the Target line or would you place the ball on the line of the clubhead orbit arc that you drew on the ground?
You are putting me on the spot? I guess you can't get any further down & out than the low point? That would probably mean that the clubhead is starting to orbit in & up after the low point, so that's where I would put the ball (I hope). If I am lucky the clubhead orbit path intersects the target line 3 in beyond low point (or is 3 in too little? ). I'm waiting to hear the master's voice.
I will have to wait to read it - in the morning (here).
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Last edited by airair : 11-20-2010 at 11:29 PM.
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  #120  
Old 11-21-2010, 12:03 AM
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Daryl Daryl is offline
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Originally Posted by airair View Post
You are putting me on the spot? I guess you can't get any further down & out than the low point? That would probably mean that the clubhead is starting to orbit in & up after the low point, so that's where I would put the ball (I hope). If I am lucky the clubhead orbit path intersects the target line 3 in beyond low point (or is 3 in too little? ). I'm waiting to hear the master's voice.
I will have to wait to read it - in the morning (here).
Ok, wait for the master to speak. All that I'm saying is that if the ball doesn't intersect the clubhead Orbit, then you'll use the hands to move the clubhead out of Orbit to reach the ball. That's Hacking.
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