Ok so this was a statement only made in the 7th edition to be clear not stated in earlier editions....
No, Whip, that wording goes all the way back to the first edition (1969). What is different in the 7th is that the final two sentences of the 6th were cut -- one going all the way back to the first edition -- and replaced with the following truncation:
"Delayed Hip Action is the only Variation that assures 'Clearing of the Right Hip' in both directions (2-N-0). So Hip Action is delayed until Start Down."
Note that Homer Kelley has underlined the word 'Action'. In TGM, Motion and Action are different animals. Just because something moves doesn't mean it is causing anything to happen. Action, on the other hand, means that work is actually being done. And what Homer is telling us here is that, in the Delayed Hip Turn, the Action (work) of the Hip Turn doesn't begin until Start Down (when it Pulls the Shoulders down). In Standard Action, the Hip Turn's work begins in Start Up (when it Pulls the Shoulders back).
This is why the Hip Turn (Component #14) and Hip Action (Component #15) are differentiated. It is not enough to simply classify the movement. You must also classify the work.
"Turn the Hips a predetermined amount - or none at all - and then semi-lock them at that point before starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club."
Some more questions regarding this preturning business:
1. Which stage does the preturning of the Hips belong to: Do you preturn at Address, Adjusted Address or Start Up? Is there a pause between preturning the Hips and "starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club", or does the preturning of the Hips blend fluidly into Start Up (sort of like a Start Up trigger)?
2. What exactly does "semi-lock" mean? Do you preturn the Hips as far as they should turn on the backstroke (so that the Hips are already kinda fully turned by that preturning) or do the Hips turn beyond their preturned condition during the backstroke?
3. Does preturning the Hips also affect the knee conditions (i.e. tugging the left knee in towards the plane line and retracting the right knee)?
Right yoda but the statement made in the original post " it Assures clearing of the hip..." that is not stated in the fourth. I'm only referring to that sentence
here is the entirety of 10-15-B in the fourth....no mention of assuring whatsoever....Unlike in the 7th
10-15-B The shoulders lead and power the backstroke hip turn-- or at least lead. The hips then lead and power the downstroke shoulder turn. Use this hip turn to prevent overswinging, turn the hips a predetermined amount--or none at all-- and then "semi-lock" them at that point before starting back with either the shoulders or the club. This will stop the shoulder turn at any preselected place, tighten the left side tension and this will set the stage perfectly for the hips to initiate the downstroke shoulder acceleration in section #7. See 2-N and 7-17
Some more questions regarding this preturning business:
1. Which stage does the preturning of the Hips belong to: Do you preturn at Address, Adjusted Address or Start Up? Is there a pause between preturning the Hips and "starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club", or does the preturning of the Hips blend fluidly into Start Up (sort of like a Start Up trigger)?
2. What exactly does "semi-lock" mean? Do you preturn the Hips as far as they should turn on the backstroke (so that the Hips are already kinda fully turned by that preturning) or do the Hips turn beyond their preturned condition during the backstroke?
3. Does preturning the Hips also affect the knee conditions (i.e. tugging the left knee in towards the plane line and retracting the right knee)?
1.homer does not say whether or not the pre turn hip execution should be in preliminary address impact fix or adjusted, he simply says before starting back, simply at some point before startup...
2.semi lock means just that, they are locked at a predetermined point before starting back but are not permanently locked thereby making them immobile and we certainly wouldn't want that for the downstroke... So semi lock them... The point of the preturned hip is to stop the shoulder motion at a preselected point, PREselected, of course you can do whatever you want! That is the beauty of it, you can create your own variation! However I think his intent was as stated to preturn a selected amount prior to startup and not move past that In The backstroke.
3.of course the hip turn will affect knee action and once again this comes down to your choice, can I preturn my hip and have a stratright leg? Yes! Can I do the same and have right anchor? Yes!
1.homer does not say whether or not the pre turn hip execution should be in preliminary address impact fix or adjusted, he simply says before starting back, simply at some point before startup...
2.semi lock means just that, they are locked at a predetermined point before starting back but are not permanently locked thereby making them immobile and we certainly wouldn't want that for the downstroke... So semi lock them... The point of the preturned hip is to stop the shoulder motion at a preselected point, PREselected, of course you can do whatever you want! That is the beauty of it, you can create your own variation! However I think his intent was as stated to preturn a selected amount prior to startup and not move past that In The backstroke.
3.of course the hip turn will affect knee action and once again this comes down to your choice, can I preturn my hip and have a stratright leg? Yes! Can I do the same and have right anchor? Yes!
Some of this depends on the amount of hip turn you want...standard knee action allowing more hip turn...also easier to have more hip turn AND a centered pivot...see pics of AP da King in earlier posts....Beautiful lines by the King.
10-14-0 General the hip turn stroke component includes weight shift and concerns only motion, unrelated to action which is a separate component, requires separate consideration
10-15-0 General hip action classifications are based on the directions in which hip action--if any--actuates the shoulder turn
So component 10-15-b is classified as hip ACTION, why then would he use this verbiage in 10-15-b "use this hip TURN to prevent overswinging" why would he use the word turn and not action when he specifically differentiated the two components, is it because the nature of pre turning is in fact a hip motion and not action whereas the downstroke of delayed hip action is in fact an action so it is actually half hip turn(backstroke) and half hip action(downstroke) relating to yodas point about the work of the action not happening til start down ??? Or is this simply how the verbiage was written, unintentionally mixing the verbiage between the components. Par 71 I'm sure you know this one....
Right yoda but the statement made in the original post " it Assures clearing of the hip..." that is not stated in the fourth. I'm only referring to that sentence
here is the entirety of 10-15-B in the fourth....no mention of assuring whatsoever....Unlike in the 7th
Unless I'm missing something here, that is exactly what I said in the first paragraph of my post #11 above.
Wwell I said that the statement about assuring the hips are being cleared was not in the fourth edition, then you said " no whip it goes all the way back to the first" my point was that that statement is not in the fourth.... Just trying to clarify that in fact the originally posted statement was not stated in all editions, I thought you were refuting that by saying "no whip that wording goes all the way back to the first.." I thought you were referring to that statement, that wording about the assuring the clearing of the right hip because that was the only wording I was referring to. I am sick hence easily confused and also why I have been posting so much!
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