Good stuff! How do you connect target and feeling the shot?
Bucket,
I'll try this one. I thought Overkill might. Let's start with putting. I never want to be standing over a putt thinking about anything, not face or pace. I want my eyes to soak it in, and let the computer do it. Say I have a slow putt, uphill and into the grain. I'm not going to tell myself to get it to the hole or hit it harder. I will say, "This putt is uphill and into the grain," while I am reading the putt. I trust that the computer will add in that factor. If it is really fast, I might spot putt it.
For short game I just make practice swings looking at my landing spot. One player told me to take the contact for granted. He thought that trying for contact upset his touch.
I'm a big numbers guy, so for a shot that is less than full, I just think "152." Similar to the way I putt. I don't stand there trying to make a 7/8 swing or whatever. You might not use the number, you might feel different pressure. It is important to practice adjusting your distances. Try hitting a full 9 iron and then an 8 to the same spot on the range. Start with the wedges and go down through the bag to the 5 iron. I don't like fiddling too much with the longer irons other than to smoke one low.
I'll try this one. I thought Overkill might. Let's start with putting. I never want to be standing over a putt thinking about anything, not face or pace. I want my eyes to soak it in, and let the computer do it. Say I have a slow putt, uphill and into the grain. I'm not going to tell myself to get it to the hole or hit it harder. I will say, "This putt is uphill and into the grain," while I am reading the putt. I trust that the computer will add in that factor. If it is really fast, I might spot putt it.
For short game I just make practice swings looking at my landing spot. One player told me to take the contact for granted. He thought that trying for contact upset his touch.
I'm a big numbers guy, so for a shot that is less than full, I just think "152." Similar to the way I putt. I don't stand there trying to make a 7/8 swing or whatever. You might not use the number, you might feel different pressure. It is important to practice adjusting your distances. Try hitting a full 9 iron and then an 8 to the same spot on the range. Start with the wedges and go down through the bag to the 5 iron. I don't like fiddling too much with the longer irons other than to smoke one low.
HB
Make the motion not the shot . . . Impact is not a Station . . . . This stuff is much easier said than done. Sometimes I wonder why it is sooooooooooo much easier to turn things over to your eyes and subconsicious when you putt? When I putt good there is a lot more "let" in my game than "make." What you said above I think is huge. Take contact for granted and trust. Those guys on tour . . . there is NO WAY they are thinking about "at it" it's gotta be through it. I've been messing with this deal about thinking that the ball and club are like kick ball size . .. it has freed up my mind and let me go on through it much better. In what you have said above I think is where the secret of getting the most out of what talent you have is . . . it's in there somewhere. This game requires a huge amount of precision for sure . . . but does that mean that you have to consciously have to control it all??? Don't think so.
This game requires a huge amount of precision for sure . . . but does that mean that you have to consciously have to control it all??? Don't think so.
True.
Do this: Grab a ball in one hand. Throw it up in the air and catch it. Now: Did you catch it because you were smart enough? Did you silently say NOW! just before your fingers closed to catch it? No. You did not think about a single thing. Still you can do it 100 times without failing.
Change green speed, i.e. Change from a golf ball to a metal marble to a feather. You catch them all.
Try not even looking at the ball as you throw it. You will still be able to catch, at least most of the time.
Try "telling" your hand were it need to be to catch the ball and "telling" the fingers/hand when to close over it. You will not do better, but probably worse.
The brain does it for you. I'll look up the English word for the brain function that does this, but that will have to be AFTER my grandmothers 97th birthday. Gotta run.
__________________
When James Durham recorded 94 at the Old Course at St Andrews in 1767, he set a course record that lasted 86 years. Golf: A curious sport whose object is to put a very small ball in a very small hole with implements ill desiged for the purpose - Sir Winston Churchill
Do this: Grab a ball in one hand. Throw it up in the air and catch it. Now: Did you catch it because you were smart enough? Did you silently say NOW! just before your fingers closed to catch it? No. You did not think about a single thing. Still you can do it 100 times without failing.
Change green speed, i.e. Change from a golf ball to a metal marble to a feather. You catch them all.
Try not even looking at the ball as you throw it. You will still be able to catch, at least most of the time.
Try "telling" your hand were it need to be to catch the ball and "telling" the fingers/hand when to close over it. You will not do better, but probably worse.
The brain does it for you. I'll look up the English word for the brain function that does this, but that will have to be AFTER my grandmothers 97th birthday. Gotta run.
NOT SO FAST BUSTER . . . Don't run yet!!!! Relate this to golf . . . what about aiming point and taking the hands down plane? Do we just see and the hands go? I like where you're going but don't be a tease . . .
NOT SO FAST BUSTER . . . Don't run yet!!!! Relate this to golf . . . what about aiming point and taking the hands down plane? Do we just see and the hands go? I like where you're going but don't be a tease . . .
Bucket,
If you know how to quote another thread into this one please do. Refer to Yoda archives Chapter 14: "The Computer." It only shows 7 views. To me it should be the ultimate goal of the golfer:
"But finally may come the time when the intended Ball behavior could be all the conscious programming you need to do, and still produce the required Ball behavior."
In fact just reread all of Chapter 14. It is all in there already.
You have to learn the correct motion. You have to do enough repetitions that it becomes automatic. Once you have the motion deeply ingrained, you can interfere with the execution by trying to control it consciously. I will be able to share a bit more on this shortly.
If you know how to quote another thread into this one please do. Refer to Yoda archives Chapter 14: "The Computer." It only shows 7 views. To me it should be the ultimate goal of the golfer:
"But finally may come the time when the intended Ball behavior could be all the conscious programming you need to do, and still produce the required Ball behavior."
In fact just reread all of Chapter 14. It is all in there already.
You have to learn the correct motion. You have to do enough repetitions that it becomes automatic. Once you have the motion deeply ingrained, you can interfere with the execution by trying to control it consciously. I will be able to share a bit more on this shortly.
HB
Very good point on Chapter 14 . . . Above . . . do you think you should PLAY like this even if you haven't done enough repetitions to give yourself the best chance?
NOT SO FAST BUSTER . . . Don't run yet!!!! Relate this to golf . . . what about aiming point and taking the hands down plane? Do we just see and the hands go? I like where you're going but don't be a tease . . .
I think HB answered how it relates to golf in his post above. Read for example about the five programming routines in Chapter 14.
Need more? Still some doubts about the yellow book? Ok, I'll give it a shot.
So: At some point we need to hand it over to non-emotional execution.
The English word I was searching for is cerebellum , i.e.
Someone might comment that a little extra thinking about how we can help the cerebellum can not hurt, even though it seems to be in conflict with 14-0.
Originally Posted by Hennybogan
Once you have the motion deeply ingrained, you can interfere with the execution by trying to control it consciously.
Even though all that sounds good, one question may remain. WHY? Why will conscious thoughts hurt?
Here's something. It may or may not be scientifically proved, but it sounds good (at least to me) and may be enough as a motivation for why we should leave it to the cerebellum, the Computer, the brain or whatever god-like function there is that does it:
Using the brain to outsmart the cerebellum would probably cause a distribution of fresh blood to other parts of the brain, leaving the cerebellum with less. Less blood to the cerebellum will not help it. So it seems perfectly logical to - during the shot - if anything - focus on shutting down all conscious brain activity while flooding the cerebellum with read hot steaming oxygen filled blood.
And:
__________________
When James Durham recorded 94 at the Old Course at St Andrews in 1767, he set a course record that lasted 86 years. Golf: A curious sport whose object is to put a very small ball in a very small hole with implements ill desiged for the purpose - Sir Winston Churchill
I think HB answered how it relates to golf in his post above. Read for example about the five programming routines in Chapter 14.
Need more? Still some doubts about the yellow book? Ok, I'll give it a shot.
So: At some point we need to hand it over to non-emotional execution.
The English word I was searching for is cerebellum , i.e.
Someone might comment that a little extra thinking about how we can help the cerebellum can not hurt, even though it seems to be in conflict with 14-0.
Even though all that sounds good, one question may remain. WHY? Why will conscious thoughts hurt?
Here's something. It may or may not be scientifically proved, but it sounds good (at least to me) and may be enough as a motivation for why we should leave it to the cerebellum, the Computer, the brain or whatever god-like function there is that does it:
Using the brain to outsmart the cerebellum would probably cause a distribution of fresh blood to other parts of the brain, leaving the cerebellum with less. Less blood to the cerebellum will not help it. So it seems perfectly logical to - during the shot - if anything - focus on shutting down all conscious brain activity while flooding the cerebellum with read hot steaming oxygen filled blood.
And:
Alex,
Here's a quote from a book called: On the Sweet Spot Stalking the Effortless Present by Dr. Richard Keefe. page195
"The brain imaging results from the study indicated that the prefrontal cortex became less active as the finger sequence became automatic. Several other studies have found the same thing, that prefrontal regions become less involved in a task as it becomes learned and engrained. As the subjects engrain the task, the halting sensations of the anterior cingulate are also minimized, and the person can initiate the movement without hesitation, without analysis, without what is experienced as thought. As the activity of the prefrontal, analytical regions diminishes, other regions become more active. The motor regions, which are responsible for the actions, become more active, as do the premotor regions and the supplementary motor area, which are involved in the immediate preparation to take action. As subjects learn to engrain the sequence of finger movements and rely on an internal rhythm to act, the energy devoted to the very specific act of preparing each movement heightens, and this energy is centered on the regions that generate the movement, not the ones that monitor them to see whether or not they're acceptable."
Dr. Richard Keefe is a clinical psychologist and neuroscience researcher and the Director of Sport Psychology at Duke University (from the jacket).
It is a complicated read. I've just been through it once. Keefe has studied the brain (MRI studies with rhythmic finger movements similar to piano playing--golfers don't fit in the machine) in order to understand what is going on when the athlete is "in the zone," so they can more easily enter The Effortless Present.
"These studies also suggest that if a task becomes fully learned and engrained into memory, the cerebellum will grow more active. It may be that the cerebellum becomes more active when a person has to work less at analyzing when or how to make a movement. Most studies suggest that the cerebellum is more involved in carrying out an action than it is in making decisions about when or how to act; the role of the cerebellum may be particularly strong in any sequence of actions that has a timed, rhythmic component to it."
The book suggests that we will be more successful if we allow the areas of the brain that control motor function do their jobs without interference from the analytical areas. It assumes alot, namely that our patterns are fully learned and engrained. That's why we practice. And we study because we want to engrain the correct movements. What if don't have these learned patterns. Good question. I do think that it is important to understand what is ideal some we can work towards it.
We also have to learn to switch the areas we are using. As we must use the analytical areas to help the define the shot we are then suppossed to trust to the motor function areas.
HB
Last edited by Hennybogan : 07-16-2007 at 12:28 AM.
Gotta run.
Ok, I'll give it a shot.
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